michaelc
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S.
Posts: 5,677 
Likes: 2,974
Member is Online
|
Post by michaelc on Aug 21, 2023 19:09:23 GMT
Before I had kids I had no idea I would feel so sensitively about them. I'm constantly worried about them and stories in the news that involve bad things happening to children, that I could quite easily put emotionally out of reach, now becomes much harder. In fact if I see a terrible sounding headline I tend to shy away from reading - harder with Letby of course since the story is everywhere. So I can't imagine what it would be like to lose one and think its absolutely "normal" to beat yourself up about it all your life but you probably know you shouldn't - you made the best choice at the time. Anyway, enough of all this friendliness among forumites - lets get back to some good old arguing  |
|
bernythedolt
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,614
Likes: 2,364
Member is Online
|
Post by bernythedolt on Aug 21, 2023 23:34:54 GMT
Thanks all and apologies for the maudlin topic. August is a bad month for my wife, because that's when it happened, so with Letby on top dragging it all back up, I've rather ended up oversharing here. Our other daughter has presented us with two lovely grandsons during these past two years. They've been the best therapy and take up all our spare time, so life is good. In the civilised and affluent west, I know we've drawn winning tickets in life's lottery, born luckier than the majority of people on this planet, so I always count my blessings. Thanks again for all the kind words. As michaelc says, let the fisticuffs resume... |
|
benaj
Member of DD Central
N/A
Posts: 5,591
Likes: 1,735
|
Post by benaj on Aug 22, 2023 10:14:08 GMT
Florence Nightingale was famous for her pioneering work in nursing and reducing mortality rate. Majority of nurses in the UK I have seen are passionate about their jobs and provide great care for people. IMHO, the media focused too much on Lucy Letby and not much on NHS Improvement.
Will the media report all the National NHS objectives 23/24 met in the future?
|
|
|
|
Post by captainconfident on May 20, 2024 11:42:27 GMT
There is a long and damning article in New Yorker magazine that is blocked from view in the UK. www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/05/20/lucy-letby-was-found-guilty-of-killing-seven-babies-did-she-do-itIt describes this case in detail and builds up a picture of a mismanaged and inadequate unit of the hospital, a self promoting TV medical expert with a theory, police too keen to find a new Harold Shipman, a hospital happy to blame a person for their own failing systems. I had no opinion before reading this but it has fully persuaded me. Now I expect to see the justice system like the hospital did, upholding its wrongful decision in this case to protect its own system. It is a scandal, and one we have seen over and over again. |
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 9,978
Likes: 5,131
|
Post by adrianc on May 20, 2024 12:38:30 GMT
There is a long and damning article in New Yorker magazine that is blocked from view in the UK. www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/05/20/lucy-letby-was-found-guilty-of-killing-seven-babies-did-she-do-itIt describes this case in detail and builds up a picture of a mismanaged and inadequate unit of the hospital, a self promoting TV medical expert with a theory, police too keen to find a new Harold Shipman, a hospital happy to blame a person for their own failing systems. I had no opinion before reading this but it has fully persuaded me. Now I expect to see the justice system like the hospital did, upholding its wrongful decision in this case to protect its own system. It is a scandal, and one we have seen over and over again. That link doesn't work, but I saw a link (here? elsewhere?) the other day that did. It was a fairly typical US bit of journalism, long on emotion. Have to admit, I was not convinced. The author was clearly working backward from a preconception. Ultimately, it's sub-judice awaiting a retrial on one of the six attempted murder charges that the jury could not reach a verdict on. The prosecution proved their case on seven counts of murder and another seven of attempted murder, the defence failed to introduce doubt. If there's credible evidence that she was just another victim of an incompetent system, it should come out in that case, and there should be an appeal. Once the trial's out the way, the restriction on the article should be lifted.
|
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S.
Posts: 5,677
Likes: 2,974
Member is Online
|
Post by michaelc on May 20, 2024 13:57:36 GMT
Interesting, I can read it from my Kharkiv proxy. It suggests she was innocent.
CC do you have any evidence anywhere that the article was blocked in the UK? I mean we can't see it but did someone make that a conscious decision?
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 9,978
Likes: 5,131
|
Post by adrianc on May 20, 2024 15:11:54 GMT
|
|
benaj
Member of DD Central
N/A
Posts: 5,591
Likes: 1,735
|
Post by benaj on May 20, 2024 15:26:19 GMT
“Lucy Letby: Judges reserve judgement on appeal bid”
TBH, I didn’t even know she was on the second stage to appeal. The hearing has already taken place and we all have to wait until June to see updates.
Sounds like those administrators updates.
|
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S.
Posts: 5,677
Likes: 2,974
Member is Online
|
Post by michaelc on May 20, 2024 15:50:07 GMT
Ahh for once you've posted a useful link  Re RT, I've told you I don't know how many times but I don't do anything special to read it. I just checked on my Kharkiv proxy and unsurpisingly its blocked from there (probably both ways!)
|
|
IFISAcava
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,692
Likes: 3,018
|
Post by IFISAcava on May 20, 2024 23:20:45 GMT
There is a long and damning article in New Yorker magazine that is blocked from view in the UK. www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/05/20/lucy-letby-was-found-guilty-of-killing-seven-babies-did-she-do-itIt describes this case in detail and builds up a picture of a mismanaged and inadequate unit of the hospital, a self promoting TV medical expert with a theory, police too keen to find a new Harold Shipman, a hospital happy to blame a person for their own failing systems. I had no opinion before reading this but it has fully persuaded me. Now I expect to see the justice system like the hospital did, upholding its wrongful decision in this case to protect its own system. It is a scandal, and one we have seen over and over again. Fortunately, there was a weeks long trial where all the evidence was thoroughly tested, by skilled barristers, in front of a skilled judge, and with a jury there to see if the presumption of innocence could be overturned. It was. I'd put a lot more money on that system getting the right verdict than a journalist, from another country, with a different legal and healthcare system, wanting get an "angle", needing to sell copies of a magazine, starting with the answer and working backwards to "build up the picture", cherry picking the facts along the way. It is not impossible that there was a miscarriage of justice, they do happen, but it's unlikely. EDIT: And the legal process isn't yet finished - an appeal may well find issues with the trial if they are there - again, that's why we have the legal due process.
|
|
keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
Posts: 4,582
Likes: 2,615
|
Post by keitha on May 21, 2024 9:04:56 GMT
There is a long and damning article in New Yorker magazine that is blocked from view in the UK. www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/05/20/lucy-letby-was-found-guilty-of-killing-seven-babies-did-she-do-itIt describes this case in detail and builds up a picture of a mismanaged and inadequate unit of the hospital, a self promoting TV medical expert with a theory, police too keen to find a new Harold Shipman, a hospital happy to blame a person for their own failing systems. I had no opinion before reading this but it has fully persuaded me. Now I expect to see the justice system like the hospital did, upholding its wrongful decision in this case to protect its own system. It is a scandal, and one we have seen over and over again. Fortunately, there was a weeks long trial where all the evidence was thoroughly tested, by skilled barristers, in front of a skilled judge, and with a jury there to see if the presumption of innocence could be overturned. It was. I'd put a lot more money on that system getting the right verdict than a journalist, from another country, with a different legal and healthcare system, wanting get an "angle", needing to sell copies of a magazine, starting with the answer and working backwards to "build up the picture", cherry picking the facts along the way. It is not impossible that there was a miscarriage of justice, they do happen, but it's unlikely. EDIT: And the legal process isn't yet finished - an appeal may well find issues with the trial if they are there - again, that's why we have the legal due process. I believe the jury arrived at the correct verdict having some personal knowledge of the Beverley Allitt case, the police will have been thorough, In that case some were treated differently to others The BMA would not allow Doctors to be interviewed without a lawyer present, and it had to be "whilst on the clock" Nurses were interviewed with no lawyers not "on the clock" and often inappropriately eg immediately after a 12 hour night shift and for 6-7 hours - IMHO this was unfair and increased stress on those staff members. Before anyone asks my mum was one of those staff members, and I feel that the lack of support from the NHS and the RCN during what was a very stressful time contributed to her having a stroke.
|
|
james100
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 1,287
|
Post by james100 on May 21, 2024 10:49:18 GMT
Not read the NY article but I thought the publicity issue was (also) related to stuff around the upcoming Thirlwall Inquiry focusing on the Countess of Chester hospital and wider NHS neonatal care. Basically, legal representation of the victims' families have requested live streamed proceedings - with 15m lag as a compliance safety net - on the basis that lack of transparency has fuelled conspiracy theories / public speculation etc. Legals for the hospital have opposed that request on the basis that witnesses are less likely to give candid and honest testimony, which has raised eyebrows for obvious reasons. thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk/about/terms-of-reference/ I think it should be streamed. I don't doubt that LL did the deeds. I do find it incomprehensible that she was able to get away with so many for so long. And those enabling factors (be that specific people, processes, culture or whatever) need to be identified and eliminated. There was enough smoke there for a corporate manslaughter investigation to be launched into the hospital, although I'm not up to speed with what happened with that. Safe to say things were not OK. IME NHS is staffed by fantastic people and awful ones. The awful ones are rarely managed out and the fantastic ones often leave; whistleblowers are bullied etc. It's not great for the good ones who remain under a shadow of suspicion, never mind the patients! keitha sorry your mother had to go through that. The whole thing must have been unimaginably traumatic and stressful anyway without being subject to two-tier treatment from professional bodies. |
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S.
Posts: 5,677
Likes: 2,974
Member is Online
|
Post by michaelc on May 21, 2024 13:06:31 GMT
There is a long and damning article in New Yorker magazine that is blocked from view in the UK. www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/05/20/lucy-letby-was-found-guilty-of-killing-seven-babies-did-she-do-itIt describes this case in detail and builds up a picture of a mismanaged and inadequate unit of the hospital, a self promoting TV medical expert with a theory, police too keen to find a new Harold Shipman, a hospital happy to blame a person for their own failing systems. I had no opinion before reading this but it has fully persuaded me. Now I expect to see the justice system like the hospital did, upholding its wrongful decision in this case to protect its own system. It is a scandal, and one we have seen over and over again. Fortunately, there was a weeks long trial where all the evidence was thoroughly tested, by skilled barristers, in front of a skilled judge, and with a jury there to see if the presumption of innocence could be overturned. It was. I'd put a lot more money on that system getting the right verdict than a journalist, from another country, with a different legal and healthcare system, wanting get an "angle", needing to sell copies of a magazine, starting with the answer and working backwards to "build up the picture", cherry picking the facts along the way. It is not impossible that there was a miscarriage of justice, they do happen, but it's unlikely. EDIT: And the legal process isn't yet finished - an appeal may well find issues with the trial if they are there - again, that's why we have the legal due process. skilled jury, unskilled jury, lucky jury ? Yes the court system is all we have and we must agree with its decisions. That does not mean it gets it right anywhere near 100% of the time. How can it when some cases are card to prove? I haven't followed all the ins and outs of this one but does seem very odd indeed and not a slam-dunk case which is probably why it courted so much publicity.
|
|
registerme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,618
Likes: 6,432
|
Post by registerme on May 21, 2024 14:00:03 GMT
... which is probably why it courted so much publicity. I think the reason it courted so much publicity is because she's alleged(?) to have killed a load of babies.
|
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S.
Posts: 5,677
Likes: 2,974
Member is Online
|
Post by michaelc on May 21, 2024 14:15:11 GMT
... which is probably why it courted so much publicity. I think the reason it courted so much publicity is because she's alleged(?) to have killed a load of babies. Alleged? She was found guilty !
|
|
