keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Aug 19, 2023 21:13:20 GMT
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james100
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Post by james100 on Aug 20, 2023 12:40:00 GMT
It's fairly accepted that racism is an issue with negative outcomes in certain sectors (at least) of the NHS. Maternity care for black women, for example. In the Letby case, serious red flags were raised by a number of medical professionals to supposedly senior executives over a period of time. The response to this went far beyond merely inadequate. The letter of apology that Dr Jayaram (aiui the lead complainant) was forced to send to Letby...literally a licence to kill. I think it's reasonable to seek logic in all directions when a situation defies common sense. The foundation to prevent something bad recurring. Alternative explanations are also pretty unpalatable. Here's the link to 7 min interview in the article.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Aug 20, 2023 13:17:18 GMT
In all places where there are children or babies there needs to be at least 2 adults around so that can see what the others are doing. That tends to be the case in most child settings and even the baby NICU as I recall (ours had 2 weeks in there) but maybe on the night shift or something there is just one - doesn't sit right as I though NICU babies tended to have very high ratios - some even 1:1 so they've zero time to notice what the others are doing ?
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Post by bernythedolt on Aug 20, 2023 21:23:21 GMT
In all places where there are children or babies there needs to be at least 2 adults around so that can see what the others are doing. That tends to be the case in most child settings and even the baby NICU as I recall (ours had 2 weeks in there) but maybe on the night shift or something there is just one - doesn't sit right as I though NICU babies tended to have very high ratios - some even 1:1 so they've zero time to notice what the others are doing ? For my wife and I, this Letby case has rekindled all sorts of demons. In the 1990s, our baby daughter was delivered by C-section six weeks early. The consultant thought she was three weeks off full-term, but had badly overestimated her gestation period, so she was born six weeks prematurely. Unfortunately, her lungs - which we were told are the last organ to mature before birth - were under-developed, so she had to be rushed into the Special Care Baby Unit (SCBU) for oxygen and intensive care. We stayed in the hospital and I spent hours every day drifting between our room and the SCBU, checking regularly on her progress. It was noticeable that during the times we had to sleep, her condition would deteriorate overnight. She'd then pick up again during the day, when I could show up unexpectedly at any moment, and then the cycle would repeat. After seven days of this, we were asked for our permission to switch off her life support, which was soul destroying. They eventually caught up with the consultant concerned a few years later, when he was suspended by the NHS for a long series of medical blunders. Given the way our baby was so up and down, and down mostly at the times I couldn't observe her care, naturally the mind plays tricks and we have to wonder whether there've been other 'Letby's in the past. It was all a long time ago, but when a case like this arises, you can't help drawing comparisons. I do have to qualify this by saying most of the SCBU nurses we dealt with were absolutely brilliant, compassionate, empathic and caring for the babies like they were their very own. One even cried with us when our little one didn't pull through. How this Letby creature did what she did is beyond all reason.
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james100
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Post by james100 on Aug 21, 2023 0:14:56 GMT
I'm sad to read your post bernythedolt this must be very difficult.
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Post by bernythedolt on Aug 21, 2023 2:38:03 GMT
I'm sad to read your post bernythedolt this must be very difficult. Thanks james100, it was a long time ago, and tough to handle back then, but time eventually numbs it away. This Letby case has just dragged it back to the surface temporarily. For one week, I experienced first-hand the whole gamut of emotions going on inside a Special Care Baby Unit - all the bells and alarms constantly going off to warn that instant attention was needed to keep one of the little mites alive for the next few hours - and the fantastic hands-on care provided day after day by the nurses to these tiny, delicate, helpless little bundles in their charge. For as long as I live, I will never forget the depth of kindness shown by one young nurse in particular, who grew close to our little daughter before she was taken from us. The mind just boggles at the stark contrast between that and what was going on inside this evil Letby woman's head.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Aug 21, 2023 6:55:07 GMT
That's awful bernythedolt , distressing to read it must have been utterly devastating to experience .
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Post by bernythedolt on Aug 21, 2023 9:07:01 GMT
Thanks registerme, it gives me a better appreciation than most of what these poor parents are going through. It's actually worse for them, knowing this wasn't just down to one person's professional incompetence as in our case, but was deliberate malevolence. How do you begin to handle that?
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keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Aug 21, 2023 10:13:57 GMT
bernythedolt you have my most sincere condolences. My late mother worked with Bev Alitt. what those children went through is horrific Worse still the Police treated all the nursing staff like criminals and they got no support from either the unions or the NHS. I should add for clarity that Doctors were treated differently. Doctors were paid for time they were being interviewed, Nurses weren't. Doctors were interviewed by appointment Nurses weren't. On one occasion my mum came home from working a might shift at 8 AM literally as she walked to the door 2 police officers got out of a car and asked to talk to her. just after 1PM 2 different officers came to continue the interview, by this stage mum is getting upset, she is due back on shift in 8 hours and has had no sleep. Fortunately my father was able to persuade them to leave just after 3.
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michaelc
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Say No To T.D.S.
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Post by michaelc on Aug 21, 2023 12:45:33 GMT
In all places where there are children or babies there needs to be at least 2 adults around so that can see what the others are doing. That tends to be the case in most child settings and even the baby NICU as I recall (ours had 2 weeks in there) but maybe on the night shift or something there is just one - doesn't sit right as I though NICU babies tended to have very high ratios - some even 1:1 so they've zero time to notice what the others are doing ? For my wife and I, this Letby case has rekindled all sorts of demons. In the 1990s, our baby daughter was delivered by C-section six weeks early. The consultant thought she was three weeks off full-term, but had badly overestimated her gestation period, so she was born six weeks prematurely. Unfortunately, her lungs - which we were told are the last organ to mature before birth - were under-developed, so she had to be rushed into the Special Care Baby Unit (SCBU) for oxygen and intensive care. We stayed in the hospital and I spent hours every day drifting between our room and the SCBU, checking regularly on her progress. It was noticeable that during the times we had to sleep, her condition would deteriorate overnight. She'd then pick up again during the day, when I could show up unexpectedly at any moment, and then the cycle would repeat. After seven days of this, we were asked for our permission to switch off her life support, which was soul destroying. They eventually caught up with the consultant concerned a few years later, when he was suspended by the NHS for a long series of medical blunders. Given the way our baby was so up and down, and down mostly at the times I couldn't observe her care, naturally the mind plays tricks and we have to wonder whether there've been other 'Letby's in the past. It was all a long time ago, but when a case like this arises, you can't help drawing comparisons. I do have to qualify this by saying most of the SCBU nurses we dealt with were absolutely brilliant, compassionate, empathic and caring for the babies like they were their very own. One even cried with us when our little one didn't pull through. How this Letby creature did what she did is beyond all reason. I'm very, very sorry indeed to hear that and you're brave for sharing it. It must be even worse not to really know what happened. I'm now feeling guilty for not spending enough time when ours were in there as it hadn't even entered my head that something like this could happen.
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Post by bernythedolt on Aug 21, 2023 16:33:26 GMT
For my wife and I, this Letby case has rekindled all sorts of demons. In the 1990s, our baby daughter was delivered by C-section six weeks early. The consultant thought she was three weeks off full-term, but had badly overestimated her gestation period, so she was born six weeks prematurely. Unfortunately, her lungs - which we were told are the last organ to mature before birth - were under-developed, so she had to be rushed into the Special Care Baby Unit (SCBU) for oxygen and intensive care. We stayed in the hospital and I spent hours every day drifting between our room and the SCBU, checking regularly on her progress. It was noticeable that during the times we had to sleep, her condition would deteriorate overnight. She'd then pick up again during the day, when I could show up unexpectedly at any moment, and then the cycle would repeat. After seven days of this, we were asked for our permission to switch off her life support, which was soul destroying. They eventually caught up with the consultant concerned a few years later, when he was suspended by the NHS for a long series of medical blunders. Given the way our baby was so up and down, and down mostly at the times I couldn't observe her care, naturally the mind plays tricks and we have to wonder whether there've been other 'Letby's in the past. It was all a long time ago, but when a case like this arises, you can't help drawing comparisons. I do have to qualify this by saying most of the SCBU nurses we dealt with were absolutely brilliant, compassionate, empathic and caring for the babies like they were their very own. One even cried with us when our little one didn't pull through. How this Letby creature did what she did is beyond all reason. I'm very, very sorry indeed to hear that and you're brave for sharing it. It must be even worse not to really know what happened. I'm now feeling guilty for not spending enough time when ours were in there as it hadn't even entered my head that something like this could happen. We were acutely aware of the possibility because she had to be transferred quickly from her hospital of birth to a higher dependency unit, by ambulance and carried inside a life support oxygen 'capsule', with a nurse attending all the way. We were told she could either go to Luton hospital, which had the equipment needed, or to London which was even better equipped, but there was an appreciable chance she wouldn't survive the longer journey to London. We plumped for Luton, but it turned out to be the wrong decision as it played out. Had she survived the journey to London, their superior skills and equipment would quite likely have saved her. I still beat myself up regularly over that, even now, but what a choice and what would you have done? I could never have forgiven myself if she'd passed away in the ambulance to London, having been warned of the risk, so in a way I think we made the only choice we could.
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Aug 21, 2023 17:17:48 GMT
I'm very, very sorry indeed to hear that and you're brave for sharing it. It must be even worse not to really know what happened. I'm now feeling guilty for not spending enough time when ours were in there as it hadn't even entered my head that something like this could happen. We were acutely aware of the possibility because she had to be transferred quickly from her hospital of birth to a higher dependency unit, by ambulance and carried inside a life support oxygen 'capsule', with a nurse attending all the way. We were told she could either go to Luton hospital, which had the equipment needed, or to London which was even better equipped, but there was an appreciable chance she wouldn't survive the longer journey to London. We plumped for Luton, but it turned out to be the wrong decision as it played out. Had she survived the journey to London, their superior skills and equipment would quite likely have saved her. I still beat myself up regularly over that, even now, but what a choice and what would you have done? I could never have forgiven myself if she'd passed away in the ambulance to London, having been warned of the risk, so in a way I think we made the only choice we could. Blimey bernythedolt. I've just caught up on this thread and I can't quite believe what I'm reading. My heart goes out to you and your wife. I can't begin to imagine how you dealt with it at the time and it really emphasises what a disgusting individual this Letby is in the impact she is having on so many people. You have my total respect for sharing, in such a considered yet heart rending way, your devastating experience.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Aug 21, 2023 17:37:04 GMT
I still beat myself up regularly over that, even now, but what a choice and what would you have done? The rational part of you knows, firstly, that you shouldn't beat yourself up about that. Not then, and not now. Secondly that you made the best decision you could in the circumstances. But that even making the best decision you could there were no guarantees that things would turn out the way you wanted them to. What if you'd opted to take your child to London, and they'd died on the way? You'd now be beating yourself up for having made "that" wrong decision... The emotional part of you? Ah well, we've all (unlike the subject of this thread) got that monkey on our backs. Were this to happen now I'd hope that you were offered therapy. And I'd hope that you'd take it. We can stack the odds in our favour as much as possible and life can still bite us in the proverbial. You're a good person Berny. Don't let the horror of what's recently unfolded at the Countess of Chester knock you down.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Aug 21, 2023 17:51:19 GMT
So sorry to hear this Berny, a parent's worst nightmare.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Aug 21, 2023 18:11:33 GMT
So very sorry Berny xx.
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