adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Sept 27, 2023 13:51:07 GMT
But the lesser promoted point of HS2 is simply adding capacity to the route. And that IS needed. Indeed it is. Putting time ranges on googling reinforces the vague memories that the capacity argument wasn't much used before an early 2012 report said it "could" do that. www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/hs2-could-free-up-space-for-faster-more-frequent-trains-on-britains-busiest-rail-line-new-studyConsidering the line was announced at the start of 2009, and the route just before the 2010 election, a cynic might suggest that it was a bit of an afterthought to try to retro-justify the expenditure after the original logic started to get seriously questioned... 2011 - www.theengineer.co.uk/content/opinion/time-for-a-rethink-on-high-speed-rail/As you say, there's plenty of FAR cheaper ways to add passenger capacity. Besides being used in many other countries, two-level carriages go back to the 19th century, and have been in mainstream use since the 1930s... /image%2F6317746%2F20210830%2Fob_779994_voitures-banlieue-a-etages-reseau-d.jpg) We've had long enough to remove the height restrictions that prevent easy adoption... and it'll be a LOT easier and cheaper and quicker than HS2. Most of the primary rail network allows 2.9m highcube shipping containers on a 1.1m carriage - so that's 4m, about the same as most modern locos... French double-decker carriages are 4.3m, most countries are about 4.6, Finland is 5.2m for more internal space... ...and UK overhead power lines are 6m+ above the rails.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Sept 27, 2023 15:31:33 GMT
40 billion lets say once completed it last 10 years without maintenance 4 billion a year. ( £4,000,000,000) take 200 working days ( yes I know the average is more but it makes easy maths ) £20,000,000 a day 15,000 people a day use it £1,333 per person per day definately not worth it I think your slide rule needs recalibrating.
Trains carry passengers 364 days of the year, so using 200 days is well wide of the mark. Also, the cost / benefit analysis will have assumed a desing life well over your 10 years. Obviously money will be spent on maintaining the line, but nowhere near £20m per day
only on a leap year. The other three years it's 363 days.
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Post by bracknellboy on Sept 27, 2023 15:43:59 GMT
40 billion lets say once completed it last 10 years without maintenance 4 billion a year. ( £4,000,000,000) take 200 working days ( yes I know the average is more but it makes easy maths ) £20,000,000 a day 15,000 people a day use it £1,333 per person per day definately not worth it I think your slide rule needs recalibrating.
Trains carry passengers 364 days of the year, so using 200 days is well wide of the mark. Also, the cost / benefit analysis will have assumed a desing life well over your 10 years. Obviously money will be spent on maintaining the line, but nowhere near £20m per day
I think you are being a tad optimistic: ASLEF, RMT and TSSA have a say in that..... 
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Sept 27, 2023 18:02:20 GMT
This company was incorporated in 2009, and the word “completed” appears five times in the report. ”Progress” appears more often in the report, the KPI has nothing to to with delivery on time and within budget. 😱 Having spent some time in Project Management, doesn't "Quality" also figure equally in The Three Basics?  
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Sept 27, 2023 19:47:53 GMT
This company was incorporated in 2009, and the word “completed” appears five times in the report. ”Progress” appears more often in the report, the KPI has nothing to to with delivery on time and within budget. 😱 Having spent some time in Project Management, doesn't "Quality" also figure equally in The Three Basics? I've seen lots of changes to clients attitudes over the years, with radically changed priorities. Currently most have an order of priority that looks like:
- excellent safety record
- high quality workmanship
- completion on time and to budget.
Whatever would 'Hurry up' Crowe have made of it
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Sept 27, 2023 20:00:17 GMT
Time Cost Quality
cant reduce cost without impacting cost, the issue is when it was presented to an expert somewhere he pointed out that increasing the cost and time would increase the quality, which in my experience isn't true.
I've seen great quality delivered quickly and at low cost and I've seen garbage delivered slowly at huge cost.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Sept 27, 2023 20:08:04 GMT
Having spent some time in Project Management, doesn't "Quality" also figure equally in The Three Basics? I've seen lots of changes to clients attitudes over the years, with radically changed priorities. Currently most have an order of priority that looks like: - excellent safety record
- high quality workmanship
- completion on time and to budget.
Whatever would 'Hurry up Crowe' have made of it
Agreed, but the report and kPI doesn’t care much about quality, more like equality and air quality
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Sept 28, 2023 7:04:44 GMT
...and I've seen garbage delivered slowly at huge cost. We've come full circle back to HS2.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Sept 29, 2023 8:25:46 GMT
A friend has just posted this on the book of faces.
"So while the U.K. HS2 argument rolls on, our return journey from Paris to Angoulême yesterday took 1 hour 55 mins. The info screen in each carriage said there were 1146 passengers on our double deck train. Nobody was standing ( we all had armchairs) It travelled at 295kph and peaked at 305kph and arrived 2 minutes early. The return journey cost 75€ each."
Paris-Angouleme is 450km, 280 miles, similar to London-Newcastle upon Tyne. Quick look on Trainline finds typical tickets for a couple of weeks time are a snidge under 3hrs each way, cheapest price of £110 return. (TBH, I'm actually surprised it's not more expensive.)
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Sept 30, 2023 11:35:36 GMT
We did St Pancras Bruxelles en route to Maastrict.
Noticeably the ride was smoother once we reached France, and I saw the readout showing 240 kph plus, yet it didn't feel fast.
Get back to the UK get on the train, and there's an announcement that all reservations are cancelled as the train will only be 5 carriages not 10.
one assumes the cost of the tickets on eurostar in and out of the UK include the cost of the border staff ( both lots ) otherwise putting it on general taxation would be unfair.
Had to laugh going out one guy lost his passport between UK border and French a matter of maybe 10 yards, big panic by his family not sure what happened as we got through very smoothly.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Sept 30, 2023 12:09:47 GMT
A few days ago Sky were saying that HS2 might end up running from Old Oak Common to Crewe. It wasn't clear if the section from OOC to Euston (or Crewe to Manchester) would be on a HS2 train running on 'normal' lines, or if you needed to get off the train at OOC and swap to a normal train to get into Euston.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Sept 30, 2023 12:13:57 GMT
A few days ago Sky were saying that HS2 might end up running from Old Oak Common to Crewe. It wasn't clear if the section from OOC to Euston (or Crewe to Manchester) would be on a HS2 train running on 'normal' lines, or if you needed to get off the train at OOC and swap to a normal train to get into Euston. I was understanding it as you get off HS2 at Old Oak, and get onto other forms of transport for Euston. Anything at all north of Brum is what's up in the air right now. Brum to Crewe (only) would seem to be the most pointless bit of all.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Sept 30, 2023 12:45:06 GMT
A few days ago Sky were saying that HS2 might end up running from Old Oak Common to Crewe. It wasn't clear if the section from OOC to Euston (or Crewe to Manchester) would be on a HS2 train running on 'normal' lines, or if you needed to get off the train at OOC and swap to a normal train to get into Euston. I was understanding it as you get off HS2 at Old Oak, and get onto other forms of transport for Euston. Anything at all north of Brum is what's up in the air right now. Brum to Crewe (only) would seem to be the most pointless bit of all. I would have thought that title would go to the bit that was originally intended to join Birmingham to East Midlands Parkway.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Sept 30, 2023 12:48:31 GMT
I was understanding it as you get off HS2 at Old Oak, and get onto other forms of transport for Euston. Anything at all north of Brum is what's up in the air right now. Brum to Crewe (only) would seem to be the most pointless bit of all. I would have thought that title would go to the bit that was originally intended to join Birmingham to East Midlands Parkway. I was going to say "Crewe doesn't have an international airport", but it turns out that EM Parkway doesn't have any links to the airport despite being four miles away...! Gawd, this country really couldn't organise a drinks reception in a brewery, could it?
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JamesFrance
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Post by JamesFrance on Sept 30, 2023 13:17:41 GMT
Gawd, this country really couldn't organise a drinks reception in a brewery, could it? I think you mean this Civil Service we are dependant on to consume our taxes couldn't..................
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