michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jun 14, 2022 19:44:15 GMT
A good idea? A bad one? A <something else> one? I assume the government must have known there would be a lot of legal challenges. I wonder if it was deliberate that they didn't put down primary legislation in the House so that some of the challenges/appeals come from the European Court of Human Rights thus potentially alienating more dailymail readers voters from said court.
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keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Jun 14, 2022 20:00:32 GMT
IMHO
moving them out of the UK should act as a deterrent, but not sure Rwanda is the right place.
personally I think they should take the correct route and on a scoring system for acceptance arriving illegally should get you a -ve score.
I also feel that when we rescue people in the channel they should be returned whence they came ( ie France )
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Post by captainconfident on Jun 14, 2022 21:56:26 GMT
IMHO moving them out of the UK should act as a deterrent, but not sure Rwanda is the right place. personally I think they should take the correct route and on a scoring system for acceptance arriving illegally should get you a -ve score. I also feel that when we rescue people in the channel they should be returned whence they came ( ie France ) There is no legal route for asylum seekers to reach Britain. But on examination by UK civil servants, 46% of asylum seekers are legitimate asylum seekers. We have international responsibilities. We are responsible for a good deal of these people through our lamentable and disgraceful interventions in places like Iraq. Trying to fly people to Rwanda is making us not just an international laughing stock, but as mean and small minded people who create chaos in other countries and take no responsibility for what we have done.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 14, 2022 22:25:47 GMT
A good idea? A bad one? A <something else> one? An utterly abysmal, inhumane, appalling, racist, xenophobic one. An illegal one in breach of several international treaties and protocols. Not that this government gives the first stuff about those... THIS government...? I wonder if they know what day of the week it is. I doubt they thought that far. Bear in mind... www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/priti-patel-small-boats-borders-inspector-b2096603.html"David Neal – appointed the independent chief inspector of borders and immigration last March – told MPs that he was “disappointed” to have had five or six meetings cancelled.
“I’ve not met the home secretary yet,” he told the home affairs select committee. “I’ve asked to speak to her on a number of occasions, and pre-arranged meetings have been cancelled on maybe five or six occasions now.”
...
The Immigration Service Union (ISU) told The Independent that Ms Patel had also rejected requests to meet leaders representing borders staff to discuss the small boats crisis."This is about headlines and throwing red meat to the Mail-believers, not about any serious attempt to address trafficking. At least 250 people crossed the channel in small boats yesterday alone. The Rwanda deal is based on 300 people per year. The trial scheme is costing the UK £120m. The people being sent TO Rwanda will be exchanged for refugees FROM Rwanda. Bear, also, in mind that the cabinet minister 100% responsible for this travesty is the child of economic migrants from a country which has a 160km land border with Rwanda. Not a refugee. She was born here five months before Amin's purge started, and her father and grandfather had already been here seven years. She lied about that in her maiden speech to parliament. Just ask yourself... If they really were expecting this, would a chartered 328-seat civilian 767 have flown from Dusseldorf to Boscombe Down this morning? www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ec-lzo#2c3d0264
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 14, 2022 22:27:06 GMT
There is no legal route for asylum seekers to reach Britain. But on examination by UK civil servants, 46% of asylum seekers are legitimate asylum seekers. We have international responsibilities. We are responsible for a good deal of these people through our lamentable and disgraceful interventions in places like Iraq. Yet the UK receives far fewer asylum applications per capita than almost every other European country.
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Post by captainconfident on Jun 14, 2022 23:16:19 GMT
This ridiculous Rwanda plan is is the logical conclusion of this government's disreputable and inept approach of international relations. It is simply solvable by negociation with the French, with pre-screening on French soil. But this governmant can't do that because because they have ruined our international reputation and nobody wants to be seen in the same room as the pandering incompetents currently awarded near dictatorial power by our archaic election system.
Even Tory MP Jesse Norman admits the disgrace brought on us by our current Home Secretary: “The Rwanda policy is ugly, likely to be counterproductive and of doubtful legality.”
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Jun 15, 2022 8:06:35 GMT
“This project will support efforts of the Government of Rwanda to receive and provide protection to about 1,500 refugees and asylum-seekers who are currently being held in detention centres in Libya. Such a remarkable and powerful proof of African solidarity should be further encouraged, replicated and supported.” Neven Mimica, EU Commissioner for International Development and Cooperation 19 November 2019
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 15, 2022 9:55:07 GMT
“This project will support efforts of the Government of Rwanda to receive and provide protection to about 1,500 refugees and asylum-seekers who are currently being held in detention centres in Libya. Such a remarkable and powerful proof of African solidarity should be further encouraged, replicated and supported.” Neven Mimica, EU Commissioner for International Development and Cooperation 19 November 2019 A world of difference between relocating people from Libyan camps, and from the UK. Of course, if the current government really cared about fighting people-smugglers, they'd work to move people from those camps to this country.
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keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Jun 15, 2022 10:14:15 GMT
for me the bigger issue is the ones that get through, I personally know of the owner of several Chinese restaurants who gets raided at least annually, and always there are undocumented illegals working in them.
His excuse is nearly always the same "not working, they are relatives helping out" he seems to get fined about £60,000 a year, but obviously he must see that the fine is less than what he saves on paying proper wages, For me the other issue is the "if this happens again you will go to jail" "you should go to jail but it will have a serious financial effect on your family"
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2022 11:05:45 GMT
Tricky stuff, not funding criminals.
See also furlough fraud, universal credit fraud, telephone fraud, disabled people fraud.....
Why do we see one type of fraud/crime as acceptable and some as unacceptable?
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jun 15, 2022 11:36:15 GMT
IMHO moving them out of the UK should act as a deterrent, but not sure Rwanda is the right place. personally I think they should take the correct route and on a scoring system for acceptance arriving illegally should get you a -ve score. I also feel that when we rescue people in the channel they should be returned whence they came ( ie France ) There is no legal route for asylum seekers to reach Britain. But on examination by UK civil servants, 46% of asylum seekers are legitimate asylum seekers. We have international responsibilities. We are responsible for a good deal of these people through our lamentable and disgraceful interventions in places like Iraq. Trying to fly people to Rwanda is making us not just an international laughing stock, but as mean and small minded people who create chaos in other countries and take no responsibility for what we have done. Strange that, because the do gooder on the radio this morning from the asylum seekers charity said 77% (still we all know what they say about statistics).
The thing I can't understand is if we have a system that allows all asylum seekers to be processed in a simple efficient manner, what will happen with those who's applications fail? Will they go quietly back to their country of origin, or will they be back on the French beaches looking for an illegal boat to UK?
As an aside, they said on the radio this morning that the flight was stopped due to intervention by the European commission for human rights. I thought that Brexit meant that we didn't have to take any notice of them any more.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2022 11:45:41 GMT
The legal entity that has ruled on the legality is not an EU institution. It is an institution that provides a legal court for all 50 or so European states not just the 27 in the EU.
Based on the performance of the Boris bus I assume he will try and leave that too
I just filled in the imperial measures questionaire on the government website. It is written as if we all have to move to Imperial with just the option of retaining metric. Welcome to Global Britain!
In all my life I have at least generally wanted a midde to right wing government, finally I've had enough with these morons, who act like they are in the centre but have so many stupid ideas and keep changing their minds. Soon we will be paying for things in shillings and pence.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 15, 2022 11:57:03 GMT
As an aside, they said on the radio this morning that the flight was stopped due to intervention by the European commission for human rights. I thought that Brexit meant that we didn't have to take any notice of them any more. Court, not Commission. echr.coe.int/Pages/home.aspx?p=homeIt's a separate and distinct entity to the EU. The UK joined in 1966 and hasn't left. EDIT: And hopefully won't leave.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jun 15, 2022 12:18:47 GMT
If the next flight isn't full maybe they could find a seat for this entitled bunch.
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Post by mfaxford on Jun 15, 2022 17:27:39 GMT
As an aside, they said on the radio this morning that the flight was stopped due to intervention by the European commission for human rights. I thought that Brexit meant that we didn't have to take any notice of them any more. A few things I've seen suggest that the origins of the EHCR are from shortly after WWII, and one of the key figures in it's origins was Winston Churchill. Related: Satire or reconstruction of current government thinking ?
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