keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Jun 15, 2022 18:31:10 GMT
If the next flight isn't full maybe they could find a seat for this entitled bunch.
Unfortunately these are role models for many youngsters
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jun 15, 2022 18:39:54 GMT
In a weird way I now think this is not such a bad thing Rwanda has a lot of refugees who have done well, although I still think it's absolutely bonkers, there have been worse bonkers ideas.
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Post by captainconfident on Jun 15, 2022 18:59:53 GMT
The government says these are the victims of "people smugglers" and therefore sets out to punish the victims, leaving the "people smugglers" untouched.
There are several people I would like to see flown to Rwanda, some without the plane needing to actually land but on reading the back story of some of the original 39 the Gvt selected for deportation, I wonder what actual degree of fear of persecution is enough for our governing sociopaths. But it is all about "the base" these days isn't it.
The Conservative Party used to be a broad coalition but now it is a narrow party governing for the 40% of the population its focus groups have identified as just enough to scrape it past the winning post.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 15, 2022 22:41:35 GMT
As an aside, they said on the radio this morning that the flight was stopped due to intervention by the European commission for human rights. I thought that Brexit meant that we didn't have to take any notice of them any more. Court, not Commission. echr.coe.int/Pages/home.aspx?p=homeIt's a separate and distinct entity to the EU. The UK joined in 1966 and hasn't left. EDIT: And hopefully won't leave. Appears to be a simpler answer, the general consensus amongst most members is just to ignore rulings they dont like and not implement them. Unsurprisingly, the UK has a better record than most. www.einnetwork.org/countries-overview
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 15, 2022 22:55:59 GMT
Appears to be a simpler answer, the general consensus amongst most members is just to ignore rulings they dont like and not implement them. Unsurprisingly, the UK has a better record than most. www.einnetwork.org/countries-overviewThere's no point having laws that you can wilfully ignore, nor courts for that matter. Maybe we should just bin it. But good luck getting a replacement that doesn't involve the ECJ.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 15, 2022 23:25:06 GMT
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duck
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Post by duck on Jun 16, 2022 8:13:43 GMT
The legal entity that has ruled on the legality is not an EU institution. It is an institution that provides a legal court for all 50 or so European states not just the 27 in the EU.
Based on the performance of the Boris bus I assume he will try and leave that too
I just filled in the imperial measures questionaire on the government website. It is written as if we all have to move to Imperial with just the option of retaining metric. Welcome to Global Britain!
In all my life I have at least generally wanted a midde to right wing government, finally I've had enough with these morons, who act like they are in the centre but have so many stupid ideas and keep changing their minds. Soon we will be paying for things in shillings and pence.
That could be 'problematic' since the ECHR is written into the Good Friday agreement. Again that could be 'probematic' this time with the optics. All measuring devices (weight, volume etc) require legal certification. The G'ments own dept the 'Office for Product Safety' withdrew from that area of work earlier this year. The current options are to set BSI up with that responsibility (cost and manpower implications) or use SGS United Kingdom (part of a Swiss multinational) or NMi Certin UK (Dutch owned). details, details who cares about details when there is a headline to be had.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Nov 15, 2023 18:27:51 GMT
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 15, 2023 19:15:45 GMT
There is a thread, but it's a bit moribund, surprisingly. p2pindependentforum.com/thread/19502/rwanda-asylum-planThere are just two things which I'm going to mention here... 1. If ECHR is the problem, what EXACTLY is the issue with the relevant section - article 3 - that can be resolved by the UK leaving the ECHR? www.echr.coe.int/documents/d/echr/convention_ENGArticle 3 says, in its entirety ARTICLE 3 - Prohibition of tortureNo one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment
Is the government saying that they do not feel they can possibly be expected to be bound by that? 2. If the issue is Rwanda, specifically, rather than the concept of offshoring processing and resettlement to a third country, why does it have to be Rwanda? Can the UK government find no more acceptable third country that they can come to a deal with? How did Priti Patel originally decide that Rwanda was the only country with which this deal could be signed, despite the UK's own ambassador to Kigali saying outright that it was not a suitable partner as early as September 2020? It wasn't merely omitted from the original shortlist of seven countries, nor on a later list of six - it was actually on a list of 14 countries NOT to do the deal with. (Her original plan, btw, was Ascension and St Helena... - www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/30/priti-patel-looked-at-idea-of-sending-asylum-seekers-to-south-atlantic - but that was too bonkers and unworkable even for her) This is Human Rights Watch's 2020 report on Rwanda : www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/rwanda and 2021 : www.hrw.org/world-report/2021/country-chapters/rwandaWhy did the UNHCR not get consulted on the feasibility? Why did they only find out about the deal when it was announced publicly?
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Nov 15, 2023 19:25:27 GMT
Ahh you're right adrianc. Apologies, I should have searched first. Mods, please would you merge if you think it appropriate?
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Nov 15, 2023 19:39:25 GMT
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Post by wiseclerk on Nov 15, 2023 21:13:00 GMT
No surprise. I thought the scheme was ludicrous in the first place.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 16, 2023 9:39:54 GMT
Bit about other European countries looking at similar schemes on R4 earlier.
Denmark and Germany are "investigating" options. Both of those are merely sops to far-right junior coalition partners.
Italy is looking at looking to house processing centres in Albania, but the key difference is that anybody who gains asylum will be allowed to come and live in Italy. Albanians can already live and work for three months out of six in Schengen, visa free.
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moonraker
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Post by moonraker on Nov 16, 2023 11:28:51 GMT
There's a scathing article(behind a paywall) titled "Why my Civil Service colleagues are celebrating the Rwanda ruling" in today's Daily Telegraph by an anonymous Home Office civil servant telling of a great lack of support within the department for the Government's Rwanda policies. It claims that Suella Braverman was "mocked and insulted by London-based staff furious at the refusal to extend safe routes to an every-growing number of countries".
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Nov 16, 2023 12:37:48 GMT
I'm really struggling to understand why setting up a reception centre in Calais, through which all asylum seekers need to come, isn't the obvious solution here. They would be able to claim that they had stopped the boats, event if they needed to agree with the French to take a certain number of claimants each year.
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