adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 19, 2023 15:08:36 GMT
Most surprising thing for me is that he was only 1.5-2x the limit. [...] Yes, I questioned that when reported as "one-and-a-half to two times over the legal drink-drive limit". That introduces ambiguity. Does "over" here mean he was 1.5 to 2 times the limit, or that much beyond the limit (so he was 2.5 to 3 times the limit)? Legal limit is 80mg/100ml. I suspect "1.5x-2x" over means 120-160. You're thinking 200-240. AIUI, 300+ is typically unconscious, 350+ is typically fatal. It suggests that 80 is not exactly "one or two cheeky pints" - although I have no idea how linear it is...
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Nov 19, 2023 15:15:45 GMT
Most surprising thing for me is that he was only 1.5-2x the limit. [...] Yes, I questioned that when reported as "one-and-a-half to two times over the legal drink-drive limit". That introduces ambiguity. Does "over" here mean he was 1.5 to 2 times the limit, or that much beyond the limit (so he was 2.5 to 3 times the limit)? No ambiguity here. Two times over the legal drink-drive limit is 2x80 more than 80 (so 240).
Probably not what was meant. just a case of sloopy reporting.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 19, 2023 15:25:34 GMT
He was doing 60 in a 40 - so instead of covering 18 metres each second, he was covering 27 - when a car pulled out into his path. The driver died in hospital from a bleed on the brain, exacerbated by pre-existing medical conditions. How far away do we think a Range Rover should be visible to somebody, given the absolute minimum eyesight standard for driving requires number plates to be read from 20m? This is the junction in question... maps.app.goo.gl/DpuVhvx3r4LRz6cE6No, carelessly. He was found not guilty by a jury of driving dangerously. ...following another police car - both with lights and sirens going. The pedestrian was just starting to cross the road at 11pm when she was passed by the first police car, and continued to cross when she was hit by the second, three to four seconds later. The police driver braked for two seconds as he saw her crossing before the impact. Video of the first car passing her... londonnewsonline.co.uk/met-officer-jailed-for-killing-mum-in-police-car-crash-after-driving-at-motorway-speeds-in-brixton/
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 19, 2023 15:26:01 GMT
No it doesn't. Whether he should have been spared jail or not is certainly a debateable point. However it is worth noting that clearly the CPS felt that the hurdle for 'dangerous driving' was not met, hence he was tried on the lesser charge of '...death by careless driving'. It does mention in there that ".... experts at the trial had said Mr Eyre [the victim] coming onto Broadway was an unexpected and unsafe manoeuvre." That doesn't excuse driving at 60 on a 40, but it might well have been considered a mitigating factor, and might well have been why the charge was the lesser one. Speculation obviously.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Nov 19, 2023 16:15:49 GMT
But why not? I mean if it goes up to 10 years or 15 are we not approaching the sentence for murder itself? I suppose what I don't understand is if we go up to say 10 years, then the only difference between drink driving, for which the penalty is often a 1 year driving ban and causing death by dangerous driving is the matter of the an accident. In both cases, the defender has acted in the same way. Hence why 6 years which is quite a lengthy sentence is about right I think. I appreciate I'm the only one here to think that - I'm used to that these days.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Nov 19, 2023 16:53:18 GMT
But why not? I mean if it goes up to 10 years or 15 are we not approaching the sentence for murder itself? I suppose what I don't understand is if we go up to say 10 years, then the only difference between drink driving, for which the penalty is often a 1 year driving ban and causing death by dangerous driving is the matter of the an accident. In both cases, the defender has acted in the same way. Hence why 6 years which is quite a lengthy sentence is about right I think. I appreciate I'm the only one here to think that - I'm used to that these days. The problem isn't the 6 years, it's the fact they get let out after 3 for good behaviour. Maybe early release shouldn't be an option for serious offences
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Nov 19, 2023 16:56:13 GMT
According to police.uk
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 19, 2023 18:43:46 GMT
The problem isn't the 6 years, it's the fact they get let out after 3 for good behaviour. Don't forget that they're only on licence until the expiry of the original offence. Fart out of tune, they're back inside. No court case. No investigation. Nothing bar "This way, mind your head..."And, yes, for a life sentence, it's life licence... But they're the ones clogging up the prison system. The UK has far more prisoners than any other Western European country. Sentences are getting longer. Prison conditions are getting worse. What's prison for? If it's to rehabilitate offenders, it's failing badly - and getting worse.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Nov 19, 2023 20:23:14 GMT
But they're the ones clogging up the prison system. Return of the death sentence would thin them out a bit. Also excellent deterrent
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Nov 19, 2023 22:11:55 GMT
perhaps court take the view "he was normally sensible, but drink took that sense away" It seems to be common these days Man stabs someone "it was the drink what did it" man beats up partner "I'd had a drink and my old problem came back" So beat up wife equals drink driving ? Come on! I wasn't equating them, I was saying its common these days to claim that "the drink caused it"
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 20, 2023 9:40:50 GMT
But why not? I mean if it goes up to 10 years or 15 are we not approaching the sentence for murder itself? I suppose what I don't understand is if we go up to say 10 years, then the only difference between drink driving, for which the penalty is often a 1 year driving ban and causing death by dangerous driving is the matter of the an accident. In both cases, the defender has acted in the same way. Hence why 6 years which is quite a lengthy sentence is about right I think. I appreciate I'm the only one here to think that - I'm used to that these days. It's inherent in the justice system that the harm caused matters, as well as intent and method. I would say this is pretty near universal, at least in the developed world. Sentencing is a malleable thing. Sentencing guidelines generally provide for a wide range, and take into account things like the level of culpability and the degree of harm caused (the same chargeable offence cover a multitude of sins, otherwise we'd have a zillion trillion different offences), and can even include the level of remorse etc. Consequently there is frequently considerable overlap between sentencing available for different chargeable offences. For example, the top end of ABH has a category of 18 months to 4 years custody. [Leaving aside the availability the special cases of 5 and 7 years max available]. The low end of GBH - the more serious offence - is 2-4 years. Manslaughter has a category range of 1-19 years [and like GBH I believe can under quite specific circumstances lead to life sentence]. For murder, a life sentence is required to be passed (I understand). But the minimum term that must be specified is 15 years.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 20, 2023 9:59:40 GMT
But they're the ones clogging up the prison system. Return of the death sentence would thin them out a bit. Also excellent deterrent I'm really not sure that real-world statistics bear that out. US - death sentence. 6.3 homicides/100k population in 2022. UK - no death sentence. 1.2 homicides/100k population in 2022.
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Post by crabbyoldgit on Nov 20, 2023 12:44:34 GMT
Um I do wonder if those comparative homicide rates are more about the availability of weapons than the existence or non existence of the death sentence. Here couples hit each other or on occasion stab which the injured party will probably will survive, a 45 calibre weapon at short range however, fatal .
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 20, 2023 12:59:23 GMT
Um I do wonder if those comparative homicide rates are more about the availability of weapons than the existence or non existence of the death sentence. Here couples hit each other or on occasion stab which the injured party will probably will survive, a 45 calibre weapon at short range however, fatal . Unless you're suggesting that the death sentence be available for all serious assaults...
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Nov 20, 2023 15:13:44 GMT
Even if it was you get the available you still get the difference in sentencing between Judges and areas
go to the East Midlands or Wales and compare sentences for drugs offences to London
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