adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 28, 2024 16:13:39 GMT
It's not. It's perfectly legal for you to DIY gas work in your own home, so long as you are "competent". It's illegal for you to do it for anybody else, even your own next door neighbour or family, even without charging. Anyway, I presume this was the water pump within the boiler? You weren't working on the gas side at all? Then it's perfectly legal, no caveats. I looked into it at the time and concluded it was a bit of a minefield. You say it is perfectly legal I would say you could easily fall foul of "The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998" especially if there is a fire/explosion and he insurer tries to get out of it after inspecting the boiler. If it blows up, you clearly fail the "competent" test, ergo it was not legal.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 28, 2024 16:17:48 GMT
It's not. It's perfectly legal for you to DIY gas work in your own home, so long as you are "competent". It's illegal for you to do it for anybody else, even your own next door neighbour or family, even without charging. Anyway, I presume this was the water pump within the boiler? You weren't working on the gas side at all? Then it's perfectly legal, no caveats. I looked into it at the time and concluded it was a bit of a minefield. You say it is perfectly legal I would say you could easily fall foul of "The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998" especially if there is a fire/explosion and he insurer tries to get out of it after inspecting the boiler. Some points from the Regulation: "If you’re not a gas professional or a Gas Safe engineer, then servicing your own boiler is illegal under The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998." This includes: "Maintaining, servicing, permanently adjusting, disconnecting, repairing, altering, renewing fittings or purging them of gas or air" is prohibited. I would say changing the pump of a gas combi boiler probably comes under repairing the unit. I would not want to have to call you in as an expert witness to argue it in court if my house had been burnt down and the insurer had found out I had been dismantling the Combi Boiler to repair it. I think it remains a very grey area. Certainly there are dozens upon dozens of discussions like this on the diy forums. What would be most interesting would be if a court had ever tested this? Does it boil down to what being "competent" means ? Then amongst this you get into how much it costs to train for certification to become gas safe and the answer is thousands. And yet I think the average Joe could be taught in a morning a domestic cut down version that included the gas tightness test and how to make and check soldered and compression fittings and where they may be used. i.e. enough to check for and correct a gas leak. I fix my own boiler and would replace it if required. I think the chances are being knocked down by a car are far higher than a boiler exploding due to my workmanship. Actually, one GasSafe engineer I know told me the biggest issue by far is not gas explosions as they are very rare, but carbon manoxide poisoning due to incorrectly fitted flue or other issue.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jan 28, 2024 22:38:45 GMT
I consider myself reasonably competent with electrics, but not an expert, but some of the stuff I've seen in other folks houses appals me, and not all of it done by householders some by electricians. The worst one was in my ex's house where one of the sockets in the kitchen was cabled at 45% or so from the ceiling, and yes I found it when drilling a hole to fit an extra cabinet.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 29, 2024 9:27:01 GMT
I consider myself reasonably competent with electrics, but not an expert, but some of the stuff I've seen in other folks houses appals me, and not all of it done by householders some by electricians. The worst one was in my ex's house where one of the sockets in the kitchen was cabled at 45% or so from the ceiling, and yes I found it when drilling a hole to fit an extra cabinet. The story goes that that's exactly what brought Part P into being - except while, yes, it does fit, the timings don't. www.tradeskills4u.co.uk/blog/part-p-mp-daughter
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mogish
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Post by mogish on Jan 29, 2024 12:51:24 GMT
My heating is so old the pipes going to the radiators look about 6mm. No idea how to change to more modern 15mm(?)pipeline and valves?
Would this require an entire refit?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 29, 2024 13:02:24 GMT
My heating is so old the pipes going to the radiators look about 6mm. No idea how to change to more modern 15mm(?)pipeline and valves? Would this require an entire refit? "microbore". It's a thing, still. It can have advantages, because the volume of water's lower so heats more quickly - but, equally, it's easier to clog.
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mogish
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Post by mogish on Jan 29, 2024 16:22:20 GMT
My heating is so old the pipes going to the radiators look about 6mm. No idea how to change to more modern 15mm(?)pipeline and valves? Would this require an entire refit? "microbore". It's a thing, still. It can have advantages, because the volume of water's lower so heats more quickly - but, equally, it's easier to clog. Excellent. So my house isn't that out of date after all. The radiators are those heavy steel ones. Friends say they must take ages to heat up, my response is they also take ages to cool down!
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 29, 2024 16:23:34 GMT
"microbore". It's a thing, still. It can have advantages, because the volume of water's lower so heats more quickly - but, equally, it's easier to clog. Excellent. So my house isn't that out of date after all. The radiators are those heavy steel ones. Friends say they must take ages to heat up, my response is they also take ages to cool down! Yup, thermal mass works both ways.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 29, 2024 16:35:24 GMT
I consider myself reasonably competent with electrics, but not an expert, but some of the stuff I've seen in other folks houses appals me, and not all of it done by householders some by electricians. The worst one was in my ex's house where one of the sockets in the kitchen was cabled at 45% or so from the ceiling, and yes I found it when drilling a hole to fit an extra cabinet. The story goes that that's exactly what brought Part P into being - except while, yes, it does fit, the timings don't. www.tradeskills4u.co.uk/blog/part-p-mp-daughterInteresting link. Of course Part P of the building regs don't prevent anyone from messing around with deadly current in their own houses. GasSafe is far more strict. I think the solution is to allow a quick course which any keen DIYer would have to complete before being allowed to do any sparks or gas work. As for the particular reg about safe zones in walls, I've never really understood it. I mean its clearly good practice but you can never rely on there not being a live cable anywhere in a wall. Circuits or the entire installation turned off and/or insulated drills (most presumably are these days) are the order of the day IMO. Cable detectors are too unreliable.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 29, 2024 16:45:46 GMT
Interesting link. Of course Part P of the building regs don't prevent anyone from messing around with deadly current in their own houses. GasSafe is far more strict. Kinda true. The whole point of it is to require sign-off for certain work. But, yes, GasSafe is stricter - although the gas installation in a typical house is far more restricted than the electrical. Where would you draw the line? Can't DIY change a light fitting? Change a broken socket faceplate? Out of five consumer units here (two in the house, three in out buildings), I've fitted four of them - five if you include the camper... <whistles innocently> Oh, yeh, and I fitted the gas in the van, too - which isn't covered by GasSafe... Problem is that the people who most need to do it, wouldn't. Do you restrict availability of components and cable to only those people who can prove they're certified? The problem in that case was that the kitchen fitters left a cable in an odd place. Two years later, hubby then DIY fitted a metal rack, one of the screws of which just nicked the cable... Three years after the rack went up, she then completed the circuit to earth via the dishwasher door...
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jan 29, 2024 17:20:34 GMT
Problem is that the people who most need to do it, wouldn't.
Do you restrict availability of components and cable to only those people who can prove they're certified?
and I can think of electricians and others who would sell a bit of cable to Bill down the road cos he's only doing a little job so you'd end up with a black market in cable and components
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 29, 2024 17:35:22 GMT
Problem is that the people who most need to do it, wouldn't.
Do you restrict availability of components and cable to only those people who can prove they're certified?and I can think of electricians and others who would sell a bit of cable to Bill down the road cos he's only doing a little job so you'd end up with a black market in cable and components Well, quite. But let's not forget that GasSafe doesn't stop me being able to go into Screwfix and buy a gas boiler off the shelf, or get it delivered. www.screwfix.com/c/heating-plumbing/boilers/cat6660001?calcfueltype=gasThey even publish a numpty's buyer's guide to help you decide which one to buy from them. www.screwfix.com/guides/heating-plumbing/boiler-guide
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 29, 2024 17:48:27 GMT
I consider myself reasonably competent with electrics, but not an expert, but some of the stuff I've seen in other folks houses appals me, and not all of it done by householders some by electricians. The worst one was in my ex's house where one of the sockets in the kitchen was cabled at 45% or so from the ceiling, and yes I found it when drilling a hole to fit an extra cabinet. In one house we found live wires taped up with electricians tape in a cupboard, we assumed they were dead (obviously) until we fortunately tested them. Forewarned we then found others under floors and in various places, scary stuff. They had also taken light fittings leaving bare wires hanging. Some lovely people out there, this was a long time ago so I hope this doesn't happen too much nowadays.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 29, 2024 17:50:51 GMT
Problem is that the people who most need to do it, wouldn't.
Do you restrict availability of components and cable to only those people who can prove they're certified?and I can think of electricians and others who would sell a bit of cable to Bill down the road cos he's only doing a little job so you'd end up with a black market in cable and components Well, quite. But let's not forget that GasSafe doesn't stop me being able to go into Screwfix and buy a gas boiler off the shelf, or get it delivered. www.screwfix.com/c/heating-plumbing/boilers/cat6660001?calcfueltype=gasThey even publish a numpty's buyer's guide to help you decide which one to buy from them. www.screwfix.com/guides/heating-plumbing/boiler-guideJust because you source a good deal for the boiler doesn't imply you are going to DIY fit it.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 29, 2024 17:52:47 GMT
I consider myself reasonably competent with electrics, but not an expert, but some of the stuff I've seen in other folks houses appals me, and not all of it done by householders some by electricians. The worst one was in my ex's house where one of the sockets in the kitchen was cabled at 45% or so from the ceiling, and yes I found it when drilling a hole to fit an extra cabinet. In one house we found live wires taped up with electricians tape in a cupboard, we assumed they were dead (obviously) until we fortunately tested them. Forewarned we then found others under floors and in various places, scary stuff. They had also taken light fittings leaving bare wires hanging. Some lovely people out there, this was a long time ago so I hope this doesn't happen too much nowadays. Yeh, we had the end of a wire just visible between plasterboard and beam. Turned out to be live when the lights were on. Oh, and for extra fun, it was just above the bath/shower! Then there was the recessed spot in the dining room - wedged so tight that it'd thoroughly melted the plastic choccy blocks pinned against the floorboards above. Or the double socket behind reflective foil behind a radiator. Or...
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