adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Sept 4, 2024 16:28:52 GMT
Absolutely. Didn't the original judge give her just a 5 year minimum? was this an IPP sentence originally ? Whatever one's thoughts about this particular person, IPP sentences were an abomination which pretty much everybody seems to regret. Yes, IPP with 5yr minimum in 2009. www.theguardian.com/society/2009/oct/26/tracey-connelly-baby-p-sentenceSentenced in May 2009 after pleading guilty in 2008 of "causing or allowing" the death, released on licence in 2013, recalled in 2015, released on licence in 2022, recalled now - so she's served 13 years so far of that 5yr minimum. And she's on licence for life... The other person given an IPP (3yr minimum) for the case had it changed to a fixed six year term on appeal. Connelly was refused grounds to appeal. IPPs were discontinued in 2012.
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Post by captainconfident on Sept 4, 2024 19:40:01 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9v8272vkxpoThat this is a crisis fuelled by the demands of tens of thousands of determined migrants, rather than by the profit-seeking motives of a loose network of criminals.Yes I agree with the theme of this article. I've long felt blaming "criminal gangs" is a cop out - a bit like the "war" on drugs. The reason they exist is due to demand. Also, they are all criminal due to the nature of the service they provide but it is very likely some are more responsible than others. Are they all nasty pieces of work taking huge sums from desperate migrants and then magnifying their risk by providing a dangerous service? Or do some of them see themselves as helping people get a better life or fleeing from war? Perhaps the latter type might at least provide life jackets for all and not overload boats. Who knows? We don't because this government, the last government and consequently the media all like to blame the "criminal gangs". If you would read this michaelc, I would be interested to know what you think about what it says. This is a genuine request, I am not trying to be controversial or funny. I thought it was worth the time for consideration www.theguardian.com/books/article/2024/sep/02/the-big-idea-why-were-getting-the-immigration-debate-all-wrong
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michaelc
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Say No To T.D.S.
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Post by michaelc on Sept 4, 2024 20:00:45 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9v8272vkxpoThat this is a crisis fuelled by the demands of tens of thousands of determined migrants, rather than by the profit-seeking motives of a loose network of criminals.Yes I agree with the theme of this article. I've long felt blaming "criminal gangs" is a cop out - a bit like the "war" on drugs. The reason they exist is due to demand. Also, they are all criminal due to the nature of the service they provide but it is very likely some are more responsible than others. Are they all nasty pieces of work taking huge sums from desperate migrants and then magnifying their risk by providing a dangerous service? Or do some of them see themselves as helping people get a better life or fleeing from war? Perhaps the latter type might at least provide life jackets for all and not overload boats. Who knows? We don't because this government, the last government and consequently the media all like to blame the "criminal gangs". If you would read this michaelc , I would be interested to know what you think about what it says. This is a genuine request, I am not trying to be controversial or funny. I thought it was worth the time for consideration www.theguardian.com/books/article/2024/sep/02/the-big-idea-why-were-getting-the-immigration-debate-all-wrongI'll happily answer if you would give your thoughts on what I wrote (that you quoted above). The article addresses a very different topic.
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Post by captainconfident on Sept 4, 2024 22:01:26 GMT
Sure, offshore processing would solve this in a week. The French would be all for it. The British should set up asylum processing in Calais next to the Eurostar. Any rejected applicants who wash up on a boat are sent back immediately. No point paying a "criminal gang" anymore.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Sept 4, 2024 22:39:47 GMT
Sure, offshore processing would solve this in a week. The French would be all for it. The British should set up asylum processing in Calais next to the Eurostar. Any rejected applicants who wash up on a boat are sent back immediately. No point paying a "criminal gang" anymore. So they turn up on a dinghy or RNLI taxi, assuming they dont just disappear, claim asylum, they get sent back to France for their claim to be processed. What happens if they are rejected? Who deals with them, us or the French? Where do they stay while being processed? (Doubt the French would be for anything that is a defacto returns agreement)
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Post by captainconfident on Sept 4, 2024 22:45:36 GMT
Sure, offshore processing would solve this in a week. The French would be all for it. The British should set up asylum processing in Calais next to the Eurostar. Any rejected applicants who wash up on a boat are sent back immediately. No point paying a "criminal gang" anymore. So they turn up on a dinghy or RNLI taxi, assuming they dont just disappear, claim asylum, they get sent back to France for their claim to be processed. What happens if they are rejected? Who deals with them, us or the French? Where do they stay while being processed? (Doubt the French would be for anything that is a defacto returns agreement) 1) The British should set up asylum processing in Calais next to the Eurostar. 2) Any rejected applicants who wash up on a boat are sent back immediately. I hope that is clearer.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Sept 4, 2024 23:16:22 GMT
So they turn up on a dinghy or RNLI taxi, assuming they dont just disappear, claim asylum, they get sent back to France for their claim to be processed. What happens if they are rejected? Who deals with them, us or the French? Where do they stay while being processed? (Doubt the French would be for anything that is a defacto returns agreement) 1) The British should set up asylum processing in Calais next to the Eurostar. 2) Any rejected applicants who wash up on a boat are sent back immediately. I hope that is clearer. My points are all still valid. You need a returns agreement. Somewhere to put all the applicants (UK likely responsible & paying). Agreement on whose responsibility dealing with rejected applicants. Plan for those who bypass Calais & still decide to come by boat. The other issue is volume ... cost & risk wouldn't be a deterrent so the numbers will probably be a lot bigger ... caps, quotas? Then you still have all the issues in relation to immigration you have now ... not going to disappear by just exchanging boats for trains. FYI I don't actually disagree, just considering the wider practicalities. A week seems a tad optimistic.
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Post by captainconfident on Sept 4, 2024 23:21:55 GMT
I'm not in charge. I haven't planned the details. Its not up to people like us. I'm just pointing at the place the solution lies in order to hurry michaelc into reading that article and seeing if I can wean him off those Tommy Robinson videos. Thanks for not taking the bait with my previous reply which I am now finding curt and uncalled for. |
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Sept 5, 2024 8:23:06 GMT
1) The British should set up asylum processing in Calais next to the Eurostar. 2) Any rejected applicants who wash up on a boat are sent back immediately. I hope that is clearer. My points are all still valid. You need a returns agreement. Which, of course, we had until the end of January 2020. France doesn't have to accept them any more, now we're outside the Dublin Agreement - the only country that does is their country of nationality. commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9031/The problem with our current asylum system is the delays. Those who are rejected ARE sent back home (providing the country is safe). The trouble is the processing is so abysmally delayed that next-to-nobody gets their application dealt with within a year or more. All the hotel-fulls? They're people in the waiting list. Once their application is accepted, they're not in that godawful bored purgatory any more. They can work. They can find their own accommodation. They can rebuild the shattered lives that brought them here...
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keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Sept 5, 2024 9:07:56 GMT
So they turn up on a dinghy or RNLI taxi, assuming they dont just disappear, claim asylum, they get sent back to France for their claim to be processed. What happens if they are rejected? Who deals with them, us or the French? Where do they stay while being processed? (Doubt the French would be for anything that is a defacto returns agreement) 1) The British should set up asylum processing in Calais next to the Eurostar. 2) Any rejected applicants who wash up on a boat are sent back immediately. I hope that is clearer. 3) Cross the channel without going through 1 Automatic deportation to country of origin, and that includes those who turn up at international airports and claim to have lost passports
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Sept 5, 2024 9:46:19 GMT
'They can rebuild the shattered lives that brought them here...'
Not here. Not in leafy Hereford/Shrop/shire. We are in another world.
Check out every conurbation in Europe and the UK and you will find the overwelming f*cked up problem with too many homeless grifters. Its cold and miserable and winter is coming.
Time to recolonise their countries of origin . Send worthy youth and Saunders of the River to sort out the problems. What happened to the Peace Corps ?
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Sept 5, 2024 9:54:04 GMT
So they turn up on a dinghy or RNLI taxi, assuming they dont just disappear, claim asylum, they get sent back to France for their claim to be processed. What happens if they are rejected? Who deals with them, us or the French? Where do they stay while being processed? (Doubt the French would be for anything that is a defacto returns agreement) 1) The British should set up asylum processing in Calais next to the Eurostar. 2) Any rejected applicants who wash up on a boat are sent back immediately. I hope that is clearer. Sounds easy but would the French accept them back? Currently I don't think they do and what would the French do with them if they did take them back? And the ones who don't want to wait or know they won't be accepted as asylum seekers will still just go by small boat or hide on trucks etc, once here it's a whole other problem as we have found out over the years and they know it. We can't let the ones on boats drown so we would have to continue funding all the patrols and rescues. Would the French set up huge camps to hold all the potential asylum seekers (or house them in hotels) while the UK system grinds on potentially for years for each applicant? And then where do the rejects go? Moving more of the problem to France doesn't solve the problem. In retrospect barmy as it was the Rwanda type solution where people get a new start in a new country (where apparently they were welcome) with a few quid in their pocket, doesn't seem that barmy. And the risk did seem to put quite a few off coming here.
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Post by overthehill on Sept 5, 2024 10:52:24 GMT
Easyjet are the pits. A problem with the hold prevented luggage from being loaded but who decided the plane was safe to fly ?
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Sept 5, 2024 11:02:52 GMT
Easyjet are the pits. A problem with the hold prevented luggage from being loaded but who decided the plane was safe to fly ?
only a Muppet would put necessary medication in hold baggage. and why have shoes in carry on rather than spare underwear etc. unless main bag was right on weight limit
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Sept 5, 2024 11:19:03 GMT
I almost had a nightmare with BA when I flew back from Italy last month. Flights were delayed by 4 hours, the baggage was stuck in Gatwick for a couple of hours. Many passengers of other flights have been waiting 5 hours without baggage.
At one point, I was contemplating ditching the baggage at Gatwick as the cab driver was waiting 100 minutes. No info at the airport whether the baggage was being unloaded.
The only thing I heard was staffs couldnt cope with many cancelled flights so they were behind unloading baggage of cancelled flights.
I would probably avoid Gatwick if I could.
Thank goodness there was only £25 surcharge for the 2 hours waiting time and I got out the mini cab with all the baggage
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