michaelc
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Say No To T.D.S.
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Post by michaelc on Sept 6, 2024 16:38:05 GMT
I assume the reason the BBC shows a chart from 2005 to now which illustrates the change rather than the absolute average house price is for a reason? Is it to confuse or merely to exaggerate the point of their article? No doubt some would say its all part of a grand strategy of the government to make folk think a certain way - I'm on the fence on that one. I would find a graph of the average house price much more interesting and informative. www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr4091rzy2woBecause thats the data relevant to the report which comes from a third party ... Halifax (& NW)... wouldn't make much sense to report a statement by Halifax then show unrelated data ... this is the BBC doing reporting ...you complain when they do opinion. Fair enough although data produced by a 3rd party (or even the Halifax) tracking house prices would be contextual and not really unrelated.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Sept 6, 2024 18:32:42 GMT
<snip> I would find a graph of the average house price much more interesting and informative. <snip> Any use? www.nationwidehousepriceindex.co.uk/resources/f/uk-data-seriesdata to download and slice'n'dice as you wish; eg: (edit - I just let excel grab the data series titles from the column headings - I'm presuming that a more accurate data heading for the % change series would be 'Cumulative Annual % Change') 
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Post by captainconfident on Sept 6, 2024 18:46:23 GMT
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Post by mostlywrong on Sept 6, 2024 18:52:11 GMT
I don't think that the blue line of absolute house prices captures the absolute agony of anyone who bought a house in the late 1980s.
I had a couple of colleagues who worked every shift they could, 12 on, 12 off, in order to keep the roof over their heads in the early 1990s.
Three consecutive years of falling house prices (-10% pa) and then a very slow and hesitant recovery in the teeth of very high interest rates.
15% pa anyone? Wasn't Norman Lamont the Chancellor? And he was trying to make Sterling track the mighty Deutschmark as part of the European Exchange Mechanism?
Not a pleasant world, as I recall.
MW
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Post by mostlywrong on Sept 6, 2024 18:55:23 GMT
Some b*s will steal anything that isn't nailed down. A great shame that someone has stolen it. Probably irreplaceable, as well.
MW
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keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Sept 6, 2024 19:56:20 GMT
Dear Lord is nothing sacrosanct anymore At one time anyone touching anything like that would suffer retribution from their own kind one hopes that there are some who will still uphold "standards"
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Sept 6, 2024 20:18:32 GMT
I don't think that the blue line of absolute house prices captures the absolute agony of anyone who bought a house in the late 1980s.
I had a couple of colleagues who worked every shift they could, 12 on, 12 off, in order to keep the roof over their heads in the early 1990s.
Three consecutive years of falling house prices (-10% pa) and then a very slow and hesitant recovery in the teeth of very high interest rates.
15% pa anyone? Wasn't Norman Lamont the Chancellor? And he was trying to make Sterling track the mighty Deutschmark as part of the European Exchange Mechanism?
Not a pleasant world, as I recall.
MW
Mortgage rates were 15% plus in the early 80s, (I don't think they were that high in the 90s). We first bought in the 70s and it was absolutely crippling we were totally broke at the time, paying the mortgage took pretty much all of our income and that was for a tiny terraced house in a cheap area. Then there was the three day week, power cuts and the fuel shortages.
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Post by bracknellboy on Sept 6, 2024 20:34:14 GMT
I'm sorry for the personal aspect for you. Some people are just total *****rs
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michaelc
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Say No To T.D.S.
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Post by michaelc on Sept 10, 2024 19:26:11 GMT
Apologies if this has been dealt with elsewhere but here is my take on the Winter Fuel Allowance:
Starmer is right for two reasons:
1/ All of the press (i.e. less than a hundred decision makers) decided it was a bad thing and let millions of their viewers and readers know that. This kind of pressure from 37 editorial decision makers and owners should never be allowed to pressure the government of the day into an about turn. Thankfully those 37 have far less influence than they did and are now really pissed off they didn't force a change of policy.
2/ Why should the elderly be singled out for non-means tested annual payments like that? At the time child benefit was moved into means-test land they should have done the same for this extra payment. Oh but the younger generations didn't vote Tory so maybe that was why.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Sept 10, 2024 19:40:03 GMT
Apologies if this has been dealt with elsewhere but here is my take on the Winter Fuel Allowance: Starmer is right for two reasons: 1/ All of the press (i.e. less than a hundred decision makers) decided it was a bad thing and let millions of their viewers and readers know that. This kind of pressure from 37 editorial decision makers and owners should never be allowed to pressure the government of the day into an about turn. Thankfully those 37 have far less influence than they did and are now really pissed off they didn't force a change of policy. 2/ Why should the elderly be singled out for non-means tested annual payments like that? At the time child benefit was moved into means-test land they should have done the same for this extra payment. Oh but the younger generations didn't vote Tory so maybe that was why. 1/ Not just the press - unions (who have far more influence), charities, a lot of Labour MPs even if they toed the line 2/ A valid argument ... its not the means testing itself that is the issue, I dont think there is any specific opposition to that, its the level & criteria ... receipt of pension credit, which has been criticised. The Labour party was vehemently opposed when they thought the Tories might do it
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Post by bracknellboy on Sept 10, 2024 20:41:30 GMT
Apologies if this has been dealt with elsewhere but here is my take on the Winter Fuel Allowance: Starmer is right for two reasons: 1/ All of the press (i.e. less than a hundred decision makers) decided it was a bad thing and let millions of their viewers and readers know that. This kind of pressure from 37 editorial decision makers and owners should never be allowed to pressure the government of the day into an about turn. Thankfully those 37 have far less influence than they did and are now really pissed off they didn't force a change of policy. 2/ Why should the elderly be singled out for non-means tested annual payments like that? At the time child benefit was moved into means-test land they should have done the same for this extra payment. Oh but the younger generations didn't vote Tory so maybe that was why. Means testing winter fuel allowance is fine, certainly where I'm sitting. Although of course much of the Conservative and right wing press and commentators have ignored that bit and majored on "taking money away from pensioners" tag line. I'm sure I'm not the only one though who knows that using receipt or otherwise of Pension Credit as a binary measure of benefit eligibility is going to cause real problems. Although one issue is poor takeup of Pension Credit, that isn't the issue that most concerns me (not least because that ought to be able to be at least partly fixed). A number of valuable additional benefits are also tied to it, but the "clip level" is too low. You can be just above it and still be in considerable financial stress. And all those benefits - including this one - are absolute eligibility or not. No value tapering. Just yes/no. So £1 over the limit and you lose out on A LOT of financial benefits. So those below the PC limit end up financially considerably better off than those just over. And those just over are typically in poor financial state. That is the big issue.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Sept 10, 2024 21:15:15 GMT
Yep, its a fair point about the clip level. Probably does need to be a bit higher.
Oh and the addition of the unions adding pressure (although don't agree its as much pressure as the press brings) is a fair point too.
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Post by mostlywrong on Sept 10, 2024 21:17:47 GMT
And don't forget the 243 mostly intrusive questions that one must answer correctly in order to receive the pension credit.
The Thoughts of Chairman MW:
After the 2010 and 2015 elections, the Tories majored on the brief note that the outgoing Labour Chancellor reportedly left on his desk, to whit "there is no money left..."
Every time there was a funding issue (and there were loads of issues), the Chancellor du jour rolled out the story. Again and again.
So, Labour has decided to get back at the Tories and now roll out the "£22bn black hole" story at every opportunity. And they will keep doing so.
The fact that there has been a black hole at the heart of government for decades is neither here nor there. The current bunch has just discovered it. Again.
What has changed since 2010-15 is, in my opinion, the rise of global social media. Both Twitter, Instagram and Whatsapp were still in their infancy. Tiktok had not been invented. The iPhone first appeared in 2007 but was very expensive. Alternatives took a while to get going. Now, everyone has an account or eleven. Teenagers in India can bump their gums at the UK politicians. As can expensively educated Russians. Lots of noise and the politicians cannot control that noise.
The politicians leapt at the opportunity to keep in touch and issue instructions to their supporters but, they never realised that when supping with the devil, one should use a long spoon. Social media was very effectively used by Labour (and the rest of the Opposition) to destroy the Tories. It worked. The Tories are probably irreparably damaged for at least one or two election cycles.
But social media is a double-edged sword and we have just seen how much damage the other side of the blade can do. The Tories will eventually learn to weaponise social media but that will take time.
In the meantime, I look forward to Ms Rigby of Sky News spluttering at Sir Keir and asking him "are you going to resign, Prime Minister?".
We live in interesting times.
MW
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Post by mostlywrong on Sept 10, 2024 21:23:30 GMT
I don't think that the blue line of absolute house prices captures the absolute agony of anyone who bought a house in the late 1980s.
I had a couple of colleagues who worked every shift they could, 12 on, 12 off, in order to keep the roof over their heads in the early 1990s.
Three consecutive years of falling house prices (-10% pa) and then a very slow and hesitant recovery in the teeth of very high interest rates.
15% pa anyone? Wasn't Norman Lamont the Chancellor? And he was trying to make Sterling track the mighty Deutschmark as part of the European Exchange Mechanism?
Not a pleasant world, as I recall.
MW
Mortgage rates were 15% plus in the early 80s, (I don't think they were that high in the 90s). We first bought in the 70s and it was absolutely crippling we were totally broke at the time, paying the mortgage took pretty much all of our income and that was for a tiny terraced house in a cheap area. Then there was the three day week, power cuts and the fuel shortages. 12 Sep 1992 - Base Rate was raised from 10% to 12%. 15% was promised but did not materialise.
Base Rate then fell back to 10% in short order. But the damage had been done and Sterling was out of the ERM.
My records show that I was paying 10.4% at some point around there.
MW
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Sept 11, 2024 8:05:09 GMT
I don't think that the blue line of absolute house prices captures the absolute agony of anyone who bought a house in the late 1980s.
I had a couple of colleagues who worked every shift they could, 12 on, 12 off, in order to keep the roof over their heads in the early 1990s.
Three consecutive years of falling house prices (-10% pa) and then a very slow and hesitant recovery in the teeth of very high interest rates.
15% pa anyone? Wasn't Norman Lamont the Chancellor? And he was trying to make Sterling track the mighty Deutschmark as part of the European Exchange Mechanism?
Not a pleasant world, as I recall.
MW
Mortgage rates were 15% plus in the early 80s, (I don't think they were that high in the 90s). We first bought in the 70s and it was absolutely crippling we were totally broke at the time, paying the mortgage took pretty much all of our income and that was for a tiny terraced house in a cheap area. Then there was the three day week, power cuts and the fuel shortages. While the 70s were undoubtedly grim, mortgage rates at the time were not. It is true that nominal mortgage rates were high, but so was inflation - peaking at 25% in 1975 and still 15% in 1980. Real interest rates, after adjusting for inflation, were negative for much of the period. For housebuyers they were always negative, because of tax relief on the interest payments. While your payments may have been crippling for the first year or two inflation will have rapidly solved the problem. You will have expected that when you took the loan out. It may well have been part of the reason why you did. Real interest rates turned significantly positive only from 1982, when inflation fell sharply to around 5%. Base rate began that year over 14% and ended it at 10%.
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