michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Feb 21, 2024 17:18:22 GMT
And here we have a possible third reason: Tobias Ellwood, the former chair of the defence select committee, said in an interview with GB News that the problems related to testing gear. “I understand it was some equipment that was actually attached to the missile itself that prevented the firing of the rocket system after the missile had left the submarine,” the MP saidwww.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/feb/21/labour-seeks-trident-assurances-after-missile-test-anomalyI wonder if all this flapping around is leading the Russians to suspect there is something more seriously wrong with our deterrent ? What a shambles !
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Post by bracknellboy on Feb 21, 2024 17:59:56 GMT
This a not just an embarrassment. I would say this weakens our defence against Russia. The value of these weapons is 99% deterrent and 1% usage. If they ain't going to work when the PM gives the order, they are an expensive waste of time. But its worse than that. The reduced effectiveness of our deterrent will already be factored into the Russian's calculation when it comes to .... I dunno.... dropping a few big conventional weapons over Britain or a nuke in the north sea. Unlikely I think but more likely than it was thanks to our armed forces that badly fcuked up. Lord West gave a different theory than Adrian's R4 guest, about the test not being worthwhile as it behaves differently with a warhead attached: "Live active missiles with warheads, we know will work and let’s hope we never have to use them."
The only answer us mortals are ever going to be given as to why this test failed is one which doesn't hugely harm our deterrent. We will not know for decades and decades whether or not there is a systemic problem. Finally if this really was another case of "wrong coords" put in - a lot of people in charge of process and systems need to be sacked (not the person at the bottom of the food chain who actually made the mistake) From all accounts we are now seeing, it 'plopped in the ocean': so that will have zero to do with targeting. A rocket failure seems like the only possible reason: I'm not sure about this excuse of test equipment interfering, 'cos if so that is pretty poor. The upside is as registerme says, that the missiles themselves are from same stock and maintenance as US, and in total there have (apparently) been a total of 191 successful firings and 'single figure' failures. I doubt the crew like the idea of 58 tonnes of missile "plopping" into the ocean in some semi random place close by. I'm not sure 'plopping' is a suitable description for that.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Feb 21, 2024 18:06:35 GMT
Are you saying we are getting the worse products from the yanks and they like to make fun of such incident?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 21, 2024 18:32:41 GMT
From all accounts we are now seeing, it 'plopped in the ocean': so that will have zero to do with targeting. Not quite. Parry's line was that it was destroyed deliberately when the error was discovered on launch.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 21, 2024 18:36:58 GMT
The value of these weapons is 99% deterrent and 1% usage. I'd like to think the usage was a LOT lower than 1%. Each of the four subs can carry 16 missiles, each with up to 12 warheads. I make that a theoretical possible maximum of 768 warheads. 1% usage would NOT be a good thing AT ALL.
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Post by bracknellboy on Feb 21, 2024 18:57:06 GMT
The value of these weapons is 99% deterrent and 1% usage. I'd like to think the usage was a LOT lower than 1%. Each of the four subs can carry 16 missiles, each with up to 12 warheads. I make that a theoretical possible maximum of 768 warheads. 1% usage would NOT be a good thing AT ALL. There is a lot wrong with that as far as the UK system is concerned. But hell, still don't want them being lobbed around.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Feb 21, 2024 19:02:59 GMT
The value of these weapons is 99% deterrent and 1% usage. I'd like to think the usage was a LOT lower than 1%. Each of the four subs can carry 16 missiles, each with up to 12 warheads. I make that a theoretical possible maximum of 768 warheads. 1% usage would NOT be a good thing AT ALL. From memory its less more like a quarter to a half of that due to ship rotation. As for 1% that's not 1% of the total stock. Its the proportion of the total deterrent's value.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Feb 21, 2024 19:42:10 GMT
191 successful tests right? I wonder how much did the yanks spend on their trident program compared to the UK. Is it true our MOD can only afford 2 tests so far when the UK is the 6th largest economy?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Feb 21, 2024 20:11:23 GMT
191 successful tests right? I wonder how much did the yanks spend on their trident program compared to the UK. Is it true our MOD can only afford 2 tests so far when the UK is the 6th largest economy? 1 below India, that bastion of modern and functioning infrastructure. 27th per capita so hardly in the premier league of living standards. Interesting that Ireland comes in a number 2. Globalisation I guess.
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mogish
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Post by mogish on Feb 22, 2024 11:23:14 GMT
Yesterday's fiasco from the embarrassment in the house of commons to failed .missile tests. Putin must be having a right old laugh.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Feb 22, 2024 11:40:51 GMT
Well, I suppose the military “intelligence” from the other sides know exactly how many deterrent they have to face. 3 failures from 194 tests?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Feb 22, 2024 16:35:12 GMT
Well, I suppose the military “intelligence” from the other sides know exactly how many deterrent they have to face. 3 failures from 194 tests? How do we know that ?
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Feb 22, 2024 16:37:45 GMT
To be fair, I know jacksxxt. The “intellgence” knows better, the better “intelligence” knows more “tricks” and understands the “enemies” better.
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