mogish
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Post by mogish on Jul 30, 2024 10:42:25 GMT
Labour restricts payments.
Always thought it's seemed a waste for expats getting this when living in Spain etc.
Is the new rules fair? Thoughts....
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on Jul 30, 2024 11:01:38 GMT
Labour restricts payments. Always thought it's seemed a waste for expats getting this when living in Spain etc. Is the new rules fair? Thoughts.... To an extent yes, it's fair. However, gov need to put something automatic in place using HMRC/ DWP data to see if a pensioner could be eligible for means pension credit and then prompt them to make an application. Reeves mentioned a connection being put in place where a pension aged person applies for housing benefit for the local council to do something, unnamed, to have pension credit entitlement pointed out. Nothing about helping the pensioner make the claim. I can see some councils asking government for more money to pay for the extra service though.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jul 30, 2024 11:58:26 GMT
Unfair because of the binary system.
As I've said before take 2 pensioners A and B
A) has a full state pension of £220 a week so gets nothing
B) has a slightly lower pension having worked away for years and spent the money
B Gets Pension credit to bring him up to the same £220, but ( in my area at least ) because pension credit is a gateway, he gets reduced Council tax, he gets discounted rent in council housing, he gets the cost of living payments, and now he will get the winter fuel allowance, so getting £5 less could make you £30 or more a week better off.
Having said that I think a fairer system would be to taper it so total income < £20,000 get it all, £20-25,000 get 2/3, £25-30,000 get 1/3 above £30,000 nothing,
I see both age concern and Martin Lewis have said its a terrible decision.
I also spotted on a comments area someone saying that "pensioners have it good in the UK, compared to people of a working age, as they don't pay TAX or NI" and that "pensioners get more (£220) than the average benefits payment (£200)" - someone pointed out that 38% of people getting benefits are working so will have a higher income than pensioners. funny I though the state pension was taxable, indeed I expect that next year my State pension will use the vast majority of my tax free allowance so I will pay tax on nearly all of my personal pension.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jul 30, 2024 12:44:00 GMT
What is the difference between means-testing the winter fuel allowance and means-testing state pensions?
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Post by Ace on Jul 30, 2024 12:55:43 GMT
What is the difference between means-testing the winter fuel allowance and means-testing state pensions? £221.20 per week 😉
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jul 30, 2024 12:56:48 GMT
What is the difference between means-testing the winter fuel allowance and means-testing state pensions? the second might cause riots. IMHO is you say "you worked and saved and have a company pension worth £30,000 so get nothing but your neighbour who spent every penny gets a full state pension will discourage people from saving" As I said earlier because my personal pension is well over the tax threshold I will effectively pay 20% of my state pension back, anyone with a pension of £50,000 will effectively pay 40%.
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Post by crabbyoldgit on Jul 30, 2024 13:27:26 GMT
The instant collapse of the private pension industry , plus a total future reliance of the aop population on the tax payer. Who would contribute to a private pension that they may die before receiving and if they do not the value will just be removed from their state pension, recieved by those who did not save and payed for via taxes payed in by the person who saved in their working life time from taxes.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jul 30, 2024 13:40:20 GMT
Already under discussion - p2pindependentforum.com/thread/20780/hm-government-money-saving-ideasAm I quite happy about WFP being removed from those who really don't need it? Yes. more than a quarter of British households with an over-65 have assets of more than £1m, and more than a half assets of more than £500k. Is the current taper too steep? Also, yes. But that applies to a whole RAFT of benefits, not just pension credit and adjacent stuff. That needs a wholesale reform of the benefits system, though, not just a quick win. |
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jul 30, 2024 14:41:59 GMT
Already under discussion - p2pindependentforum.com/thread/20780/hm-government-money-saving-ideasAm I quite happy about WFP being removed from those who really don't need it? Yes. more than a quarter of British households with an over-65 have assets of more than £1m, and more than a half assets of more than £500k. Is the current taper too steep? Also, yes. But that applies to a whole RAFT of benefits, not just pension credit and adjacent stuff. That needs a wholesale reform of the benefits system, though, not just a quick win. My pension "pot" is worth around £500,000 I get £23,000 a year before tax, I consider myself quite well off, next year with my state pension I will sill be below average earnings. one issue is that my pension pot "dies" with me, my kids don't get it they get the house and savings one issue for me and many other pensioners is my pension increases are limited to 5% a year so my pension is going up less than inflation last year I got 4.99% this year 3.78%. and to answer the obvious question :- people will know I invested £8500 in solar and batteries Last year Electricity cost me £570 and Gas £500 I was paid £800 for export and gained £120 in rewards from my supplier from the DFS scheme So basically my bill was £150, so do I need the WFA do I heck NB these figures don't include the value of any electricity I used as it was being produced. the WFA would reduce my bill for last year to < £800 I withdrew £1000 in August 2023 which paid for an extra battery, I withdrew another £300 in April, my balance is currently £285, Rough estimate is that I'm £25 in credit on current bill. Maybe I should reduce my DD, but I tend to use it as a piggy bank, last year It was nice to say Ok lets have another battery without thinking of the cost
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jul 30, 2024 16:41:47 GMT
What is the difference between means-testing the winter fuel allowance and means-testing state pensions? the second might cause riots. IMHO is you say "you worked and saved and have a company pension worth £30,000 so get nothing but your neighbour who spent every penny gets a full state pension will discourage people from saving" As I said earlier because my personal pension is well over the tax threshold I will effectively pay 20% of my state pension back, anyone with a pension of £50,000 will effectively pay 40%. Not in a million years.
When the tax man is looking at your finances, the first thing he allocates your tax free allowance to is your state pension. My state pension is currently £13,100, which is £530 over the tax free allowance. As a result I will pay about £106 in tax, which is less than 1%.
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Jul 30, 2024 17:07:43 GMT
I would rather see all what the government class as social security payments means tested, including the state pension, personal independence payments etc.
To many wealthy people get payments.
Mandate much higher private compulsory pension contributions during working life, and have the government provide a means tested safety net.
Over half the government total social security spend already goes to pensioners. This may well get worse. It is completely unaffordable for the working population. I am uncomfortable young people paying my state pension with all the cost of living challenges young people face.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jul 30, 2024 17:18:47 GMT
the second might cause riots. IMHO is you say "you worked and saved and have a company pension worth £30,000 so get nothing but your neighbour who spent every penny gets a full state pension will discourage people from saving" As I said earlier because my personal pension is well over the tax threshold I will effectively pay 20% of my state pension back, anyone with a pension of £50,000 will effectively pay 40%. Not in a million years.
When the tax man is looking at your finances, the first thing he allocates your tax free allowance to is your state pension. My state pension is currently £13,100, which is £530 over the tax free allowance. As a result I will pay about £106 in tax, which is less than 1%.
Ok then look at it the other way this year I have £12570 tax free and pay tax on the rest, next year I will have £1000 tax free and pay taxon the rest therefore my state pension income is effectively taxed at 20%.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jul 30, 2024 17:21:48 GMT
I would rather see all what the government class as social security payments means tested, including the state pension, personal independence payments etc. To many wealthy people get payments. Mandate much higher private compulsory pension contributions during working life, and have the government provide a means tested safety net. Over half the government total social security spend already goes to pensioners. This may well get worse. It is completely unaffordable for the working population. I am uncomfortable young people paying my state pension with all the cost of living challenges young people face. year ago I worked with a guy who had a motability vehicle, as part of the job he was required to travel but because his motability vehicle was funded apart from petrol costs, he made a massive profit on the 45p per miles allowance compared to those of us paying for insurance, tax Mot, tyres, servicing etc etc
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jul 30, 2024 17:54:30 GMT
Not in a million years.
When the tax man is looking at your finances, the first thing he allocates your tax free allowance to is your state pension. My state pension is currently £13,100, which is £530 over the tax free allowance. As a result I will pay about £106 in tax, which is less than 1%.
Ok then look at it the other way this year I have £12570 tax free and pay tax on the rest, next year I will have £1000 tax free and pay taxon the rest therefore my state pension income is effectively taxed at 20%. No, next year you will still have £12,570 tax free, and pay tax on the rest. The only difference is that the rest will be a far bigger number because of the state pension you receive.
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bernythedolt
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Post by bernythedolt on Jul 30, 2024 18:48:15 GMT
I would rather see all what the government class as social security payments means tested, including the state pension, personal independence payments etc. To many wealthy people get payments. Mandate much higher private compulsory pension contributions during working life, and have the government provide a means tested safety net. Over half the government total social security spend already goes to pensioners. This may well get worse. It is completely unaffordable for the working population. I am uncomfortable young people paying my state pension with all the cost of living challenges young people face.If it seriously troubles you, nobody forces you to take your state pension. The Treasury would happily hold on to it, permanently if you prefer. Even if you're already in receipt of your state pension, you are permitted to put it on hold, but you can only do this once. Let us know how you get on. You could start an altruistic movement here.
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