markr
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Post by markr on Feb 24, 2015 22:09:16 GMT
Yep, I guess it could be 'random by seller' (which means if a big flipper gets picked first nobody else will get a look in). Or maybe it is not random, maybe it is now FIFO instead of LIFO? Random by seller is also helpful for Fixed Cues when it "randomly" chooses, say, Furtive Collusions Solutions Ltd as the seller.
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blender
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Post by blender on Feb 24, 2015 22:45:16 GMT
Yep, I guess it could be 'random by seller' (which means if a big flipper gets picked first nobody else will get a look in). Or maybe it is not random, maybe it is now FIFO instead of LIFO? Random by seller is also helpful for Fixed Cues when it "randomly" chooses, say, Furtive Collusions Solutions Ltd as the seller. Yes but for only that buyer. Another buyer calling a list of loan parts will get a different ordering of sellers - I hope. I also worried about FCSL and the Autobid system being 'optimised' for the sort of loan parts held by Finally Clearing Spare Loanparts. But since what they wish to sell is what I wish to sell, I did not worry too much.
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markr
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Post by markr on Feb 25, 2015 10:01:39 GMT
Finally Clearing Spare Loanparts. Classic 
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 11:59:03 GMT
I've walked away from FC for a bit to focus on better returns elsewhere, but I thought I'd leave autobid on at high levels to tell me when things had improved. (yes I know I may buy some rubbish, but, I'm guessing that most of the time I'll be blown out before the auction finishes until rates come right). Anyway I'm struggling to understand what is happening. Does Autobid only run once a day at 5pm say? I've asked FC after I noticed that their FAQs are not exactly very explanitory. If I get sense back I'll post, but maybe you guys already know? Autobid seems to take it in turns to process one lender at a time. It used to give each lender a turn about once every 2 hours - plenty fast enough for a high-level autobid to get you on the auction in time for a borrower who accepts the loan offer within a few hours. Now it seems to be going much slower. I'm unsure exactly how slow, but it take rather more than 24 hours for autobid even to consider attempting to bid on a newly-listed auction. It's unclear whether that's due to faults with FC's system or a deliberate design decision (perhaps hoping to smooth out the supply of funds to auctions that start at different times of day, etc.), but I've already seen anecdotal evidence of at least one lender withdrawing funds as a result (log on, see over £1000 of funds that autobid hasn't used, withdraw funds to bank - never mind that autobid SHOULD have used those funds if it was working properly - the user can see that in fact it DIDN'T, and doesn't really want to concern themselves with the intricate details). However, if autobid had been working efficiently and placing bids within a small number of hours, I've anecdotal evidence of a different (manual) lender [i.e. me!] who would have withdrawn funds by now, as the currently live bids on recent auctions would have been outbid long ago. If the autobid go-slow was deliberate, in order to retain funds "in the system" from manual bidders seeking "unusually high" rates, it seems to have been effective, however, I'd tend to bet on poor system implementation before Fantastically Cunning strategies... Edit to also reply to: So, interesting to see that "it will not place a bid on every loan that meets your criteria" I've asked for a bit more detail, I can see the randomness-by-time is there to spread "fairness" to the various other people using autobid , but I'm not really sure why some loans will be excluded completely despite them hitting the criteria. I suspect the ones that are "excluded completely" are the ones where the rate at which you've asked autobid to bid is no longer available by the time that autobid would have attempted to bid on it, and also the ones where you didn't have enough funds to place further bids after the "random" selection it got for you. No sl75, you've missed the point, this is tricky stuff. She actually wrote "it will not place a bid on every loan that meets your criteria" , so this is nothing to do with one of my criteria "the target interest rate" being above and the present maximum bidding rate for an auction. Nor can it be anything to do with my lacking funds in this account, 'cause it is very positive at the moment and well able to fund everything on the auction site at the target 0.5% level. Anyway I've asked for more details about the mechanism of the randomness, after all there is no such thing as absolute randomness, only mechanisms designed to provide pseudo-randomness. 
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Feb 25, 2015 15:18:49 GMT
No sl75, you've missed the point, this is tricky stuff. She actually wrote "it will not place a bid on every loan that meets your criteria" , so this is nothing to do with one of my criteria "the target interest rate" being above and the present maximum bidding rate for an auction. Nor can it be anything to do with my lacking funds in this account, 'cause it is very positive at the moment and well able to fund everything on the auction site at the target 0.5% level. The original quote you provided was: "Autobid is designed to place bids randomly throughout the day, and so it will not place a bid on every loan that meets your criteria." i.e. not placing a bid on every loan that meets your criteria would be a consequence of this action of placing bids randomly throughout the day, and was not stated to be a specific design decision in its own right. I've not analysed in enough detail to be sure if autobid is actively ignoring auctions despite having funds available. It hadn't seemed to do so last time I looked in any detail. I'll have an opportunity over the weekend to look over another account that uses autobid exclusively (and had a reasonable chunk of funds unused earlier this week), and see in a bit more detail what it did (and perhaps more importantly what it didn't do and should have done!). If an auction were to run for the full 7 day term and not receive a bid from an autobid user despite the stated rate being continuously available (with adequate funds also continuously available) that would seem to me a very good cause for complaint... ... even the existing autobid "problem" where an early acceptance denies many ("randomly selected") autobid users the opportunity to participate seems barely acceptable.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Feb 25, 2015 16:08:16 GMT
Yep, in my opinion autobid users get such a bad deal, generally, that it would be fine by me to apply all the possible autobids BEFORE even launching the auction to all comers. Of course that might upset the tall one. You could do this 'offline' as it were, without impacting the biding servers.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 16:50:21 GMT
Melissa just gave me this "Autobid operates on a randomised algorithm, cycling through each registered investor in turn, before then reordering and cycling through again. The intent of this set-up is that it reduces the risk of any preferential treatment caused by an alignment of a particular bidder and the start time of auctions. There is no guarantee that Autobid will place a bid on a specific loan (and in turn specific risk band) at the point at which it cycles to a given user. From the point at which an auction opens, the bidding window is open to all investors; those directly monitoring the listings have an advantage in bidding, however there is no preferential treatment in action at this point. Autobid can therefore place a bid on your behalf at any point during the auction process and this bid will show as live as soon as it has been placed." does not really add a lot but still useful in terms of my limited understanding. Hugs Bobo |
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Feb 25, 2015 17:01:05 GMT
Figures on 10977 haven't moved for about five minutes; can't tell me no-one's bidding in the last ten minutes of an A loan  .............three minutes left and multiple F5 refreshes .... still the same as nearly ten minutes ago. ....60 secs to go ....no movement ..... and auction finished with exactly the same bidding figures as they were about 13 minutes before the end. OK, I kept my 10.4% bids, but I wonder how Facile Credibility would explain to a borrower that bids were blocked for at least the last thirteen minutes, thus possibly causing a borrower rate 0.1% higher than it need be. Fawlty Crowdfunding probably wouldn't acknowledge fawlt. edit: just watched 10980, a small C loan, the last six minutes - not a single bid with top rate 11.3% (not in it myself). It beggars belief that no-one at Farting Crumplers is monitoring the progress of their auctions all the time. I can't test out 10983 (not interested anyway) 'cos I've only got 50p available  . My final bids for 10977 went in OK about an hour ago. |
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coop
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Post by coop on Feb 25, 2015 17:29:29 GMT
Indeed grumpy. Probably my first and still biggest grievance with Feral Children is the spate of bad gateways etc at the end of any popular loans.
I complained and got a boring stock response I will copypasta over here later if you're interested.
Meanwhile my money slowly flows out of the Fissuring Cavern...
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Feb 25, 2015 17:34:47 GMT
Well, the three auctions I have been watching haven't registered a single bid* for half an hour .... the story goes on. Are any of our forumites trying to bid? (despite nothing interesting being offered).
Not a single bid registered on 10983 for the last twenty minutes - twenty five minutes to go!
It looks like a few odd bids are appearing in the "all bids" list, the bid summary is stuck, and did not move for the last 45 minutes.
* edit .... on the bids summary. It looks like some bids are appearing on the "all bids list"
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Feb 25, 2015 18:02:20 GMT
Not a single bid registered on 10983 for the last twenty minutes - twenty five minutes to go! A good number of bids showing for me, including several within the 20 minutes prior to your post.... 9 ##### £20 10.8% 25 Feb 2015 17:54 Live 10 ##### £20 10.8% 25 Feb 2015 17:54 Live 11 ##### £20 10.8% 25 Feb 2015 17:54 Live 12 ##### £20 10.8% 25 Feb 2015 17:54 Live 13 ##### £20 10.8% 25 Feb 2015 17:49 Live 14 ##### £20 10.8% 25 Feb 2015 17:46 Live 15 ##### £20 10.8% 25 Feb 2015 17:32 Live 16 ##### £20 10.8% 25 Feb 2015 17:28 Live 17 ##### £20 10.8% 25 Feb 2015 17:28 Live 18 ##### £20 10.8% 25 Feb 2015 17:28 Live 19 ##### £40 10.8% 25 Feb 2015 17:26 Live 20 ##### £40 10.8% 25 Feb 2015 17:26 Live 21 ##### £40 10.8% 25 Feb 2015 17:26 Live 22 ##### £20 10.8% 25 Feb 2015 17:21 Live 23 ##### £40 10.8% 25 Feb 2015 17:19 Live Hardly the most exciting rates in the world for a 'C' rated loan though (far higher can be readily picked up in the secondary market), so not really surprised most people aren't bothering to bid. Edit: and anyone who can add up will be bidding lower than that anyway, as we've got the old problem with the total value of live bids exceeding the value of the auction (the real bidding activity must now be happening at 10.6%)
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Post by davee39 on Feb 25, 2015 18:20:29 GMT
Well, the three auctions I have been watching haven't registered a single bid* for half an hour .... the story goes on. Are any of our forumites trying to bid? (despite nothing interesting being offered). Not a single bid registered on 10983 for the last twenty minutes - twenty five minutes to go! It looks like a few odd bids are appearing in the "all bids" list, the bid summary is stuck, and did not move for the last 45 minutes. * edit .... on the bids summary. It looks like some bids are appearing on the "all bids list" I put in 3 bids on 10977 a couple of mins from the end. They were 'in' at auction end, but got kicked out 5 minutes later when the excess bids caught up. And to everyone leaving FC in disgust, thank you, and please try to take a friend with you, there are far too many bidders at the mo. Now shall I take a punt on the relisted mortgage at 9%?
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Post by davee39 on Feb 25, 2015 18:46:34 GMT
Is the tall one actually trying to break the site? Stuffing 200k into a little 30k loan.... And still only 30% filled!
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Feb 25, 2015 18:52:06 GMT
Foolish Cobblers still don't know the bid summary has been malfunctioning for much of the afternoon. People with bids have had no idea whether or not to rebid because it's been stuck. I was lucky, just (by about £1200 in the queue) in 10977.
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wysiati
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Post by wysiati on Feb 25, 2015 18:59:54 GMT
Is the tall one actually trying to break the site? Stuffing 200k into a little 30k loan.... He (it is a he) does this quite often even when there are no website issues and the result is often that as the loan goes to fully funded status there are 502 errors etc with other lenders being unable to access the page to knock off some of his bids. I can't see any positive reason to massively overbid up to many multiples of the entire loan request size at the same % level.
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. My final bids for 10977 went in OK about an hour ago.
