bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Feb 28, 2015 18:00:01 GMT
...it will go to platforms that provide funding within a 2 hours max of my transfer (... which is pretty much EVERY p2p/p2b platform). If it does, then it will become easier buy units and so won't be a problem any more. Even now it is only a problem for the tiny loans. The two most recent loans are available to buy two weeks later. If the promised flood of loans arrives it should be even less of a problem. At the moment it can be thought of as bonus for people who keep some money on the platform.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Feb 28, 2015 18:19:30 GMT
You make a deposit notification on their site, you then make an FP transfer to their Client Money AC quoting a reference provided by the site. I wouldn't like that. My bank doesn't allow editing of payee details, even the reference (which is a real pain). Changing the reference requires deleting and re-creating (introducing possible errors). Hmm, maybe worded that badly. Reference is always the same, so no editing required. Initially MT had a changing reference but theyve dropped that after feedback.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Feb 28, 2015 18:39:57 GMT
To be totally clear just because other sites permit instant use of (someone else's ) funds that in reality don't actually arrive in the platform's bank for several days doesn't mean they are obeying client money rules or have found a legal solution. You should ask them if they are compliant. I'd rather not go to jail thanks. Do you feel comfortable if a platform was to breach client money rules as a matter of day to day business ? There are potential solutions but its a lot harder than a retail website giving you a 'credit' facility for a few days unfortunately. You mean you are offering shares via a company (SEEDRS) which you believe to be in breach of the law? Excuse me, doesn't that make you an accessory?
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chrisf
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Post by chrisf on Feb 28, 2015 18:48:13 GMT
My experience with getting money into AC hasn't been so bad, It has always been in by 9am the day after the transfer. Yes, it's slower than all the other P2P platforms I use, but it isn't really that bad. It isn't like new loans fill in minutes like some other sites either, so you are unlikely to miss out on a loan.
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j
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Post by j on Feb 28, 2015 18:59:49 GMT
Without a doubt, the lack of deal flow has had a greatly detrimental effect on lending habits for a number of months. As per some observations, a number of investors got caught out having to park extra funds in a very small collection of loans (plumber man being the most notorious at the moment) due to this & I do not think they will forget /forgive that easily or quickly. I, for one, reduced quite heavily & will continue to do so, regardless of what future deal flow might be. Time will tell if others (esp older lenders) would do the same. I doubt it will affect AC or that they care with this inflow of new money & more underwriter availability though. The only redemption is if AC sort out the defaulted loans fairly soon & also recover a significant amount from the plumber loan & any others that might follow suit.
Time will tell.
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Post by ratrace on Feb 28, 2015 19:13:45 GMT
lt was the lack of been able to fund loans by DD that has caused me to do most of my P2B lending with FC rather then AC.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Feb 28, 2015 19:31:01 GMT
Are you saying that Faster Payment Service same day bank transfers do not show up same day or next day ? : They certainly do not show up on the day they arrive in the AC client account. We have been told by AC that they are unable to credit those funds to our lenders' accounts until the following working day, and can only do that if the money arrives before some afternoon cut-off time. If they miss the cut-off then the funds aren't available for us to invest until another working day has passed. The thing I find most worrying about the above question is that AC's Chief Executive appears to be unaware that AC have this problem that puts them at a significant disadvantage to other P2P/P2B platforms they are competing with for investors' funds. Regarding loan flow andrewholgate and his team has promised substantial flow that started in late February and surges forwards next week and continuously from there. The new funding we have received has seriously increased volume of new loan applications. Hope that helps. I'm afraid that a lot of us remember AH's promise/prediction/hope that AC would have made £100M of loans by the end of 2014, so while I expect we all hope AC do manage to produce increased deal flow -- and soon -- we are not holding our breath while waiting. Reading the Recent Activity updates and Qs&As for the various AC loans, one cannot help being struck by the number of times that AC have promised something will happen by a given date and failed to deliver on time. Late February has come and gone, and we have seen little evidence of the increased deal flow yet, so we take a promise of a surge next week with a rather large pinch of salt. In short, we will believe the increased deal flow when we see it -- and not before. AC have ambitious plans, and I wish them success with those -- especially as I soon will be a shareholder. However, as has been pointed out numerous times here in the forum, some of us are worried that AC are putting too much of their resources into developing new aspects of the business and not enough into making sure that the existing business is working well. I am hopeful that the funds raised by the share offering will allow AC to increase their resources to the point where they can pursue both goals at once successfully.
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Post by lynnanthony on Feb 28, 2015 19:38:29 GMT
My experience with getting money into AC hasn't been so bad, It has always been in by 9am the day after the transfer. Yes, it's slower than all the other P2P platforms I use, but it isn't really that bad. It isn't like new loans fill in minutes like some other sites either, so you are unlikely to miss out on a loan. Indeed. There are currently three up-and-coming loans that I fancy. So I keep enough cash in my Assetz account to cover my target investment on one. (I keep things simple. My target investment is always the same; either I like the loan or I don't.) Whichever up-and-coming loan moves to the SM first gets bought automatically, and I top up the cash to cover the next one. Instantaneous cash transfer though nice is unlikely to be a necessity. I have never felt the need to "park" cash in loans I would not have otherwise bought. One loans worth of cash sitting "dead" is not going to break the bank. Putting the cash where I would not normally have done so might. I find Assetz a pleasantly relaxed process, unlike for instance FC, which I got out of. Couldn't stand the pace.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Feb 28, 2015 19:54:58 GMT
To be totally clear just because other sites permit instant use of (someone else's ) funds that in reality don't actually arrive in the platform's bank for several days doesn't mean they are obeying client money rules or have found a legal solution. You should ask them if they are compliant. I'd rather not go to jail thanks. Do you feel comfortable if a platform was to breach client money rules as a matter of day to day business ? There are potential solutions but its a lot harder than a retail website giving you a 'credit' facility for a few days unfortunately. You mean you are offering shares via a company (SEEDRS) which you believe to be in breach of the law? Excuse me, doesn't that make you an accessory? I don't think these two situations are comparable. With AC, money credited to lenders' accounts is usable immediately to purchase parts of loans from other lenders or underwriters, who then could withdraw the proceeds of their sales immediately. So I can understand why AC might not be happy allowing that before they had cleared funds in their client account. With Seedrs, on the other hand, funds credited to investors' accounts so that they can invest in current offerings don't go anywhere other than from one Seedrs account (the investor's) to another (the campaigning business's). By the time Seedrs are ready to release funds to the business, I'd expect all debit card authorised deposits to have been followed up by cleared funds having arrived from the debit card holders' banks. (Any non-arrival of funds would mean that the investor's offer would have been cancelled/withdrawn.) So by the time Seedrs use the funds they will have cleared funds in their client account. At which point there's no issue/problem.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Feb 28, 2015 20:07:41 GMT
Whichever up-and-coming loan moves to the SM first gets bought automatically, and I top up the cash to cover the next one. Instantaneous cash transfer though nice is unlikely to be a necessity. I have never felt the need to "park" cash in loans I would not have otherwise bought. One loans worth of cash sitting "dead" is not going to break the bank. Putting the cash where I would not normally have done so might. : I think a lot depends on how much money an investor has coming into their account from prior investments. Someone who has been investing for a while at AC will have an inflow of interest plus the occasional repayment of a prior loan arrive into their account, the latter often with little or no accurate advance notice. I expect that's the money that the lender wishes to 'park' somewhere while waiting for a further investment opportunity to arrive. This all emphasises the need for loan book diversification. Certainly that will become easier if the promised deal flow increase materialises.
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Post by batchoy on Feb 28, 2015 20:11:15 GMT
I have about £40k in P2P but less than 1K in Assetz Capital - why so low when AC's returns are so attractive? To me the biggest inhibitor is the need to send money by 'Faster bank transfer'. In AC's case that means send it on a Thursday and it might be credited on the following Tuesday (If you are lucky). On the Seedrs site, Stuart Law answered thus Question from another person ' As far as I can see one can only fund the cash account via bank transfer. Will there be an instant option to fund the cash account via debit card like the seedrs platform allows it?' Answer ' Whilst we get notified immediately and the client is debited immediately, debit cards do not create cash in our client account for a few days - permitting someone to invest immediately would mean that practically people were investing using someone else's cash and that could easily be a breach of client money rules so we have declined to do it. That's the technical answer.'Most of the other P2P sites have solved this in a satisfactory manner - AC hasn't and has no intention of doing so! To me this shows that AC is focussed on it's Accountants' needs and not on its Customers' needs. Until AC demonstrates that it is more Customer Focused, I am afraid that AC will remain a poor relation in my portfolio. What is stopping the rest of you investing via Assetz Capital? To be totally clear just because other sites permit instant use of (someone else's ) funds that in reality don't actually arrive in the platform's bank for several days doesn't mean they are obeying client money rules or have found a legal solution. You should ask them if they are compliant. I'd rather not go to jail thanks. Do you feel comfortable if a platform was to breach client money rules as a matter of day to day business ? There are potential solutions but its a lot harder than a retail website giving you a 'credit' facility for a few days unfortunately. I have to say that is a load of c**p, using faster payments which my bank account does by default I can send money across Europe using an intermediary and have it arrive in peoples bank accounts payments quicker than it arrives in my AC account. When I was investing money in Bondora I was getting next day notifications (something else AC have singularly failed to implement) to say that funds had arrived and been deposited in my account.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Feb 28, 2015 21:47:22 GMT
<abbr data-timestamp="1425140736000" class="time" title="Feb 28, 2015 16:25:36 GMT">Feb 28, 2015 16:25:36 GMT</abbr> stuartassetzcapital said: To be totally clear just because other sites permit instant use of (someone else's ) funds that in reality don't actually arrive in the platform's bank for several days doesn't mean they are obeying client money rules or have found a legal solution. You should ask them if they are compliant. I'd rather not go to jail thanks. Do you feel comfortable if a platform was to breach client money rules as a matter of day to day business ? There are potential solutions but its a lot harder than a retail website giving you a 'credit' facility for a few days unfortunately. So to be perfectly frank here stuartassetzcapital - it is your suggestion that possibly other platforms are in breach of FCA client money requirements rather than a possible misinterpretation of the rules by AC. I've worked with compliance 'experts' in the past - in fact there's a whole industry that's been built up on compliance. Problem is you ask them a question in the morning and you get the advice. Ask the same question in the afternoon and the advice is different. I'm not suggesting that is the case with AC but I do find it disturbing that a suggestion is being made by the CEO of a major P2P company that other platforms are possibly or indeed probably in breach of FCA regulations rather than there could be an erroneous interpretation by AC themselves. I do though appreciate that working with the FCA, or to be more exact their handbook is more than challenging for anyone. Nonetheless, it's a competitive marketplace and according to the two banks I use, the FP system is virtually instant in their eyes. By that I interpret it to mean a couple of hours subject of course to the recipient to be in a position for their systems to carry out the necessary credit - either automatically or manually. I believe this is an area requiring your urgent attention.
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Post by chris on Feb 28, 2015 22:07:49 GMT
<abbr data-timestamp="1425140736000" class="time" title="Feb 28, 2015 16:25:36 GMT">Feb 28, 2015 16:25:36 GMT</abbr> stuartassetzcapital said: To be totally clear just because other sites permit instant use of (someone else's ) funds that in reality don't actually arrive in the platform's bank for several days doesn't mean they are obeying client money rules or have found a legal solution. You should ask them if they are compliant. I'd rather not go to jail thanks. Do you feel comfortable if a platform was to breach client money rules as a matter of day to day business ? There are potential solutions but its a lot harder than a retail website giving you a 'credit' facility for a few days unfortunately. So to be perfectly frank here stuartassetzcapital - it is your suggestion that possibly other platforms are in breach of FCA client money requirements rather than a possible misinterpretation of the rules by AC. I've worked with compliance 'experts' in the past - in fact there's a whole industry that's been built up on compliance. Problem is you ask them a question in the morning and you get the advice. Ask the same question in the afternoon and the advice is different. I'm not suggesting that is the case with AC but I do find it surprising that a suggestion is being made that other platforms are possibly in breach of FCA regulations rather than there could be an erroneous interpretation by AC. I do though appreciate that working with the FCA, or to be more exact their handbook is more than challenging for anyone. Nonetheless, it's a competitive marketplace and according to the two banks I use, the FP system is virtually instant in their eyes. By that I interpret it to mean a couple of hours. I believe this is an area requiring your urgent attention. To clarify the potential breach of FCA rules relates to debit card solutions not bank transfers unless the platform credits accounts without sight of received funds. Bank transfers are purely a technical solution for us where once the bank API is released to us we'll get it up and running within a few days but the project is stalled at getting that access. Stuart has just made this one of the business's top priorities though so a solution will be found. A debit card deposit solution is possible but requires very complicated work arounds and some carefully managed restrictions to be compliant with the letter of the FCAs regulation and their own example implementation. Technically we can do this but to make it practical to manage we need closer integration with the bank, so refer to the above again. Some other platforms may also work around the regulations, for example where you're not lending directly to a borrower or buying loan units from another lender but buying loan units from the platform themselves. With our platform you are not buying loan units from us or investing in us, you are trading with other lenders. Our handling of the depositing of funds therefore needs to be very strict as dictated by the FCA with no wriggle room or clever interpretations of the rules.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Feb 28, 2015 22:32:48 GMT
...it will go to platforms that provide funding within a 2 hours max of my transfer (... which is pretty much EVERY p2p/p2b platform). <snip> At the moment it can be thought of as bonus for people who keep some money on the platform. Agreed but there is a limit as to how much idle money any lender/investor is prepared to keep on the platform. I have 2 or 3 future loans targeted but as they are not for a high borrowing requirement I expect others have targeted them as well. So I doubt if my target will be achieved. Unfortunately as there is no triggering mechanism via e-mail and/or text that the loan will be drawn during the next 48 hours then it's simply not possible to plan accurately. All we have are best guess estimates which are often delayed normally by the borrower. Since we are now only dealing with the SM, this is an area which I feel AC could refine.
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Post by bracknellboy on Feb 28, 2015 23:17:20 GMT
This has been an interesting thread. I note Chris's comment on the distinction between debit card and FP transactions. I'm only aware of 2 platforms that use debit card: FC and RS, and as I recall RS is quite recent (I certainly remember it used to take some time to get funds in).
Both of these have quite considerably larger scale than AC, so possibly there is a reasonably large cost (implementation and ongoing operating cost) involved to make this happen in a compliant way, which can only be justified/make sense at a certain breakpoint. Interesting that both have these have gone down the debit card route for quick transfer rather than fp. And FC of course has a lender to lender contract model through its SM.
Other platforms use FP. Today I made transactions into FS and MoneyThing (my first toe dip). Both give the impression of having a bit of manual involvement (i.e. notify us that you are making the transfer so we can do a bit of backend reconciliation to speed up, though I might be wrong). Both were available in my account in a very short space of time (though not as fast as FP transfers I used to do between two major banks which typically happened faster than I could switch browser windows to check; truly impressive). Neither have a lender to lender model with a SM.
TC seems to operate an honours system: notify them you have made a deposit (like FS and MT) with money being credited to the account normally PDQ, even at weekends. But whether that involves a check that the deposit has actually been received in the client account I' not sure: (or to put it another way, I very much doubt it can). They also have a lender to lender model through their SM. But on the other hand, their SM is far from being fully automated and I'm pretty sure manual work involved in transferring from one lender to another.
Interesting. But whatever, the issue of speed of money transfer at AC versus competition has been flagged on here for a long time, since the demise of GoCardless. There a a number of reasons why my holdings @ RS have raced ahead of those @ AC (while my exposure @ AC has been static/small decline), deal flow being a significant one. But it is no concidence that my exposure on RS has tripled since introduction of instant direct debit transactions with no fees above £1k. While AC has combined removal of instant deposits with subsequent loss of shadow bidding.
It is a pity that AC have not / do not see it as an important competitive point. That said, with the new AC model it may later to be seen as less important as it once was I think.
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