mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Apr 17, 2015 12:50:42 GMT
No doubt they feel they have enough willing lenders to simply put anything on the platform and it will be funded - so why bother with the detail. I expect that is the case. And even if the info were to be supplied once the loan was active on the website, in many cases it would be too late -- anyone who paused long enough to look at the info provided probably would find that the the loan had been fully funded while they reading! Without a secondary market, in order to be useful the info really has to be made available at the time of the 'New Loan Coming Tomorrow' announcement. I just get a bit nervous when presented with an investment based on little more than a nice website and "Trust us". I'm not suggesting there's a particular risk here, but looking at the way so many P2P platforms keep appearing it strikes that it would be all too easy to set up a Ponzi scheme and eventually leave a large collection of investors staring at a big hole in their finances.
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Post by mrclondon on Apr 17, 2015 13:16:36 GMT
I just get a bit nervous when presented with an investment based on little more than a nice website and "Trust us". I'm not suggesting there's a particular risk here, but looking at the way so many P2P platforms keep appearing it strikes that it would be all too easy to set up a Ponzi scheme and eventually leave a large collection of investors staring at a big hole in their finances. I'm in the new loan on the basis of the low LTV, and what appears to be a credible value for the described property, however fundingsecure are really doing themselves a massive disfavour with their current comms approach. A valuation document (even if redacted) provides a degree of comfort that this isn't simply a sophisticated ponzi scheme, with valuations plucked from a marketing agents fantasy land.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Apr 17, 2015 18:28:24 GMT
... however fundingsecure are really doing themselves a massive disfavour with their current comms approach. A valuation document (even if redacted) provides a degree of comfort that this isn't simply a sophisticated ponzi scheme, with valuations plucked from a marketing agents fantasy land. I agree. I presume FS wish to maintain the support they have now and continue to grow their business. To do that, they need for their investors to have faith and trust in them, and to be assured that everything they're doing is proper. The more info they provide, the more confident their investors will be. With very little info, all it could take to spook their investors might be an unfounded rumour. I suppose that not having a secondary market could work in their favour in such a situation, as it wouldn't be quite so obvious that investors wish to bail out. But still, having difficulty funding loans would be a very bad sign. They clearly don't have any such problem at the moment, and as long as their track record continues, they could be fine. But I still feel that the more info they can provide to assure their investors of the quality of their business model the better off they'd be. But that's JMHO.
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sqh
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Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Apr 17, 2015 19:04:01 GMT
Today's Shropshire property loan has gone live. The announcement of the loan stated "Additional details will be available on the loan page". The only additional info I can see on the website is the loan number and the words "Good Condition". Is this all the info FS are prepared to give in order to encourage investors to give them £59k? Am I the only one who considers the available info to be inadequate to allow a proper evaluation of the investment? For instance, they don't even state that there are no other charges against the property (i.e. that FS will have the first charge). I guess we're supposed to presume that's the case, but I don't feel that I should be making investments based on presumptions. Does anyone else feel similarly? I'm completely comfortable with this listing. It does say it's a first and only charge on the information page. The assets page states "A charming 3 bedroom detached country cottage with modern stable and grazing land in all about 2.62 acres.", and there's a photo. If this defaults I will happily buy the property at the loan value and cover all accrued interest. I wouldn't even bother to get a valuation.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Apr 17, 2015 21:03:52 GMT
For instance, they don't even state that there are no other charges against the property (i.e. that FS will have the first charge). It does say it's a first and only charge on the information page. Yes, it does say that -- now. Those words weren't there at 1115 today. Before I made my posting, I sent a similar comment in an email to FS. Their reply included "...extra wording has now been added to confirm the fact that it is a first (and only) charge." I give FS full marks for responding. The assets page states "A charming 3 bedroom detached country cottage with modern stable and grazing land in all about 2.62 acres.", and there's a photo. If this defaults I will happily buy the property at the loan value and cover all accrued interest. I wouldn't even bother to get a valuation. But would you pay across £59k, plus accrued interest, to FS solely on the basis of the statement on the assets page? Or would you first want to satisfy yourself that the property actually existed? And that FS had a first charge against it. The point is that it is all too easy to make things up. Bernie Madoff did it for years. I'm not suggesting that FS are doing that, but I would feel a lot more confident if the info from FS included a valuation, redacted if necessary.
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sqh
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Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Apr 17, 2015 22:24:49 GMT
The assets page states "A charming 3 bedroom detached country cottage with modern stable and grazing land in all about 2.62 acres.", and there's a photo. If this defaults I will happily buy the property at the loan value and cover all accrued interest. I wouldn't even bother to get a valuation. But would you pay across £59k, plus accrued interest, to FS solely on the basis of the statement on the assets page? Or would you first want to satisfy yourself that the property actually existed? And that FS had a first charge against it. The point is that it is all too easy to make things up. Bernie Madoff did it for years. I'm not suggesting that FS are doing that, but I would feel a lot more confident if the info from FS included a valuation, redacted if necessary. Perhaps P2P needs a lender spokesperson who will contact the RICS valuer and the lawyers of all property loans to verify that loans are genuine and the appropriate charges are in place. easteregg, What do you think about this?
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Post by easteregg on Apr 18, 2015 6:23:16 GMT
But would you pay across £59k, plus accrued interest, to FS solely on the basis of the statement on the assets page? Or would you first want to satisfy yourself that the property actually existed? And that FS had a first charge against it. The point is that it is all too easy to make things up. Bernie Madoff did it for years. I'm not suggesting that FS are doing that, but I would feel a lot more confident if the info from FS included a valuation, redacted if necessary. Perhaps P2P needs a lender spokesperson who will contact the RICS valuer and the lawyers of all property loans to verify that loans are genuine and the appropriate charges are in place. easteregg, What do you think about this? I do think this is a good idea. With peer-to-peer lending there needs to be a high degree of trust in the lending platform, but some independent scrutiny would be very worthwhile. There have been "fraudulent" applications on platforms before but lenders will only hear about these when they have slipped through the net and have gone bad.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Apr 18, 2015 11:39:03 GMT
Perhaps P2P needs a lender spokesperson who will contact the RICS valuer and the lawyers of all property loans to verify that loans are genuine and the appropriate charges are in place. easteregg, What do you think about this? I do think this is a good idea. With peer-to-peer lending there needs to be a high degree of trust in the lending platform, but some independent scrutiny would be very worthwhile. There have been "fraudulent" applications on platforms before but lenders will only hear about these when they have slipped through the net and have gone bad. An independent verification of everything would be nice, but even spot checks -- or the threat of them -- might be enough. I expect the FCA do provide that threat, but I also expect that they won't be particularly quick at getting their detailed inspection programme going, and so by the time they inspect a rogue P2P/P2B platform -- if there were to happen to be one -- there could be a large amount of money involved and potentially lost. Anything the industry could do to improve/ensure investor confidence would be positive. As long as it doesn't get too expensive, of course. That's where a joint effort could help. Could this be something the P2PFA might organise?
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Apr 21, 2015 10:54:32 GMT
New unannounced £500 (£25 bid) ring loan available.
PS. Two rings, actually. And offering only 11% interest.
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alison
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Sanctuary!!
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Post by alison on Apr 21, 2015 11:38:51 GMT
New unannounced £500 (£25 bid) ring loan available. PS. Two rings, actually. And offering only 11% interest. Still £200 left - as at 12.38
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Post by fundingsecure on Apr 22, 2015 6:53:05 GMT
New loan at 11:00 this morning, Microsculptures £130,000 12% pa LTV 13.1% £1000 bid restriction for first 24 hours More detailsFundingSecure |
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Apr 22, 2015 7:18:56 GMT
New loan at 11:00 this morning, Microsculptures £130,000 12% pa LTV 13.1% £1000 bid restriction for first 24 hours More detailsFundingSecure , can you please confirm that the previous £300k loan has ranking seniority over this new one in case of default? The description mentions that this loan is secured against a second charge on the collection but doesn't explicitly say that the first charge is linked to the previous loan. By definition, this loan must be considered a greater risk than the first, yet I'm surprised there is no difference in the rate offered.
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Post by fundingsecure on Apr 22, 2015 20:01:09 GMT
New loan at 3pm tomorrow, Collection of Jewellery £52,000 12% pa LTV 60.4% £1000 bid restriction for first 24 hours More detailsFundingSecure |
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Jaydee
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Post by Jaydee on Apr 23, 2015 9:41:20 GMT
New loan at 3pm tomorrow, Collection of Jewellery £52,000 12% pa LTV 60.4% £1000 bid restriction for first 24 hours More detailsFundingSecure I have 4 loans awaiting repayment and FS appears to be accepting excuses from borrowers instead of chasing our money. Therefore until my loans are repaid I'll pass on lending on new opportunities. I will also be more prudent on what I loan against, avoiding the special items such as carpets, Australian art etc., irrespective of the posted LTV
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Apr 23, 2015 10:29:01 GMT
I have 4 loans awaiting repayment and FS appears to be accepting excuses from borrowers instead of chasing our money. I'm hoping the above is a little harsh. In some of the overdue cases FS have said that although they're still talking to the borrowers about potential full -- or, in one case, partial -- repayment, these discussions will not delay the disposal of the assets. One loan, for instance, has its security booked into an auction on 8/May. There's not much that can be done to hurry that process, so there's no reason to stop talking to the borrower before the auction date arrives. Having said that, though, there are a number of these overdue loans where either there was a deadline stated that has passed, or where the most recent comment is a week or more old, so it would be appropriate for fundingsecure to provide further updates at this time.
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