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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Mar 6, 2015 12:49:52 GMT
Cumbrian Anaerobic Digestion Plant #160
up to 5years, rate 10%, ltv53%, first charge on the plant itself. A lot to read...
It says this one will be one for the "Green Energy A/c"
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Mar 6, 2015 13:24:50 GMT
Cumbrian Anaerobic Digestion Plant #160 up to 5years, rate 10%, ltv53%, first charge on the plant itself. A lot to read... It says this one will be one for the "Green Energy A/c" Thanks Ton ⓉⓞⓃ - nothing showing yet unless it's been 'pulled'.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Mar 6, 2015 13:28:51 GMT
I saw it in "upcoming" but now it's gone. Someone pointed out that it is only 50% funded.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 6, 2015 14:53:04 GMT
If anyone wants to invest I believe I have something similar - waste in, gas out - sat on my hat. At least no-one could complain that they had invested in an asset that turned out to be s***t  |
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 6, 2015 19:20:33 GMT
I saw it in "upcoming" but now it's gone. Someone pointed out that it is only 50% funded. Perhaps it accidentally got moved into Upcoming prematurely and has been put back into the Underwriter Only section where, AIUI, it's supposed to stay until it is 100% funded. Does anyone know roughly how big the requested loan is/was? The GEIA certainly could use another loan requiring funding.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Mar 6, 2015 19:49:48 GMT
I saw it in "upcoming" but now it's gone. Someone pointed out that it is only 50% funded. Yes your right, but it's handy to get early sight of it, as there was quite a lot to read and get and understanding of. It was £1.3m, check missing Links elsewhere.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Mar 6, 2015 21:23:27 GMT
10% seems low for an AD plant. There is more to go wrong than with wind. AD plants listed on TC have been at a 2-3% premium to wind.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 6, 2015 21:44:36 GMT
10% seems low for an AD plant. There is more to go wrong than with wind. AD plants listed on TC have been at a 2-3% premium to wind. Perhaps AC are thinking that most of the investment will come from the GEIA. If they continue to pay 7% on that, they could feel that 3% margin is enough to cover the risks involved. Then again, if the going rate is 12%, they'd be crazy to pass up the opportunity to earn a 5% margin. Come to think of it, they probably do, via their set-up fees and 'loan monitoring' fee -- though those aren't as visible as the GEIA spread.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Mar 6, 2015 21:49:25 GMT
Cumbrian Anaerobic Digestion Plant #160 up to 5years, rate 10%, ltv53%, first charge on the plant itself. A lot to read... It says this one will be one for the "Green Energy A/c" The valuation report will make an interesting read should it ever appear. Suppose there must be an expert somewhere that can value one of those.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Mar 6, 2015 21:53:50 GMT
10% seems low for an AD plant. There is more to go wrong than with wind. AD plants listed on TC have been at a 2-3% premium to wind. Perhaps AC are thinking that most of the investment will come from the GEIA. It probably will as I suspect there may be a few lenders/investors in the GEIA unaware that they haven't managed to attain a full 100% investment due to the 20% rule. Maybe with the adjustment being made to the algorithm over the weekend the 20% rule will be relaxed at times of famine so lenders can achieve the 7% projected on funds invested.
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Post by mrclondon on Mar 6, 2015 22:15:25 GMT
The valuation report will make an interesting read should it ever appear. Suppose there must be an expert somewhere that can value one of those. I took one of the TC sponsors to task a few weeks ago for presenting an AD proposal not only with no valuation, but stating that the borrower believed his plant was worth x because he'd heard others were worth y. The borrower didn't feel the cost of a valuation was justified apparently. (The loan still filled reasonably quickly.) The sponsor explained that there are a couple of firms with the expertise to value these things, but both insist on fairly extensive research that can take weeks (and presumably cost ££,£££ ), and hence neither firm would be prepared to do a "desktop valuation" with stated error bands to support the borrower's claim of x.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Mar 6, 2015 22:34:44 GMT
The valuation report will make an interesting read should it ever appear. Suppose there must be an expert somewhere that can value one of those. I took one of the TC sponsors to task a few weeks ago for presenting an AD proposal not only with no valuation, but stating that the borrower believed his plant was worth x because he'd heard others were worth y. The borrower didn't feel the cost of a valuation was justified apparently. (The loan still filled reasonably quickly.) The sponsor explained that there are a couple of firms with the expertise to value these things, but both insist on fairly extensive research that can take weeks (and presumably cost ££,£££ ), and hence neither firm would be prepared to do a "desktop valuation" with stated error bands to support the borrower's claim of x. That old chestnut about my mate down the pub told me....... I find this trend disturbing that lenders are prepared to pile into an investment without a professional valuation. Okay, if it's a quick £25 or £50 then it's possibly worth a punt just for the fun but sooner or later this will blow up big time and the Mail on Sunday will no doubt be the first to jump on it followed closely by the FCA who are historically media driven.
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am
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Post by am on Mar 7, 2015 7:28:01 GMT
I took one of the TC sponsors to task a few weeks ago for presenting an AD proposal not only with no valuation, but stating that the borrower believed his plant was worth x because he'd heard others were worth y. The borrower didn't feel the cost of a valuation was justified apparently. (The loan still filled reasonably quickly.) The sponsor explained that there are a couple of firms with the expertise to value these things, but both insist on fairly extensive research that can take weeks (and presumably cost ££,£££ ), and hence neither firm would be prepared to do a "desktop valuation" with stated error bands to support the borrower's claim of x. That old chestnut about my mate down the pub told me....... I find this trend disturbing that lenders are prepared to pile into an investment without a professional valuation. Okay, if it's a quick £25 or £50 then it's possibly worth a punt just for the fun but sooner or later this will blow up big time and the Mail on Sunday will no doubt be the first to jump on it followed closely by the FCA who are historically media driven. Why should AD plants be particularly difficult to value? There's some unpredictability in input prices, but otherwise it seems to me that a valuation on a discounted cash flow basis should be simple enough.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Mar 7, 2015 8:25:44 GMT
Why should AD plants be particularly difficult to value? There's some unpredictability in input prices, but otherwise it seems to me that a valuation on a discounted cash flow basis should be simple enough. Because they are riskier. More work needed to get comfortable on the cash flows, and to determine what discount rate to apply.
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j
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Post by j on Mar 7, 2015 10:08:28 GMT
I held shares in an SE-listed AD-focused co for a few years. They were a half-decent outfit as far as things go & there were even rumors of a generous takeover on a couple of occasions a few years ago. The co had difficulties on & off & did a capital raise twice if I remember correctly & seemed to be getting back on the right track winning contracts & building a new facility for the future after a lengthy-ish legal battle. Very recently, they went bust & all shareholders have effectively lost their money (yours truly included). I would be very weary of AD proposals, not saying you should not invest but, do thorough research & make sure you fully understand the concept & the commercial viability before putting even a quid in.
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