sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
Posts: 1,428 
Likes: 1,212
|
Post by sqh on Nov 13, 2015 12:46:15 GMT
savingstreamCan you please provide an update on loan PBL025 ? There are several issues that have come to light as a result of a new loan on MoneyThing. The PBL025 valuation report is clearly for Block C, but the MT loan is to be secured on Block C, have the Block numbers changed ? What is the status of all the Blocks ? It seems that a few units in Block A were presold, (financed with A******), Loan PBL025 money has being used to build Block C, but according to MT we are actually secured on Block B, which may not be constructed at the moment. Then there are the architects drawings from SS and MT which are inconsistent. The only scenario that makes any sense would be MT refinancing the SS loan, which MT deny.
|
|
jonbvn
Member of DD Central
Posts: 326
Likes: 95
|
Post by jonbvn on Nov 13, 2015 19:15:22 GMT
savingstreamThe only scenario that makes any sense would be MT refinancing the SS loan, which MT deny. That is what I have assumed. It looks like playing two ends against the middle. I've sold all my PBL025 and will not bid (significant sums) on the MT loans until I get some clarity.......
|
|
|
|
Post by savingstream on Nov 13, 2015 22:56:58 GMT
EDIT: Borrower is attempting to refinance this loan at MT
Apparently this SS loan is secured against block "B" at Huddersfield, despite the valuation report attached to the loan being for block "C" An attempt is being made to refinance Block 'C' (from unknown lender) to MT - see this thread savingstream - can you comment on what your understanding is of block 'B' vs block 'C' please ? Yes, we have block B and the valuation shows block C. We have the other valuation, will put it up next week. Apologies for the sloppiness. They are identical by the way.
|
|
webwiz
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 210
|
Post by webwiz on Nov 14, 2015 13:19:56 GMT
EDIT: Borrower is attempting to refinance this loan at MT
Apparently this SS loan is secured against block "B" at Huddersfield, despite the valuation report attached to the loan being for block "C" An attempt is being made to refinance Block 'C' (from unknown lender) to MT - see this thread savingstream - can you comment on what your understanding is of block 'B' vs block 'C' please ? Yes, we have block B and the valuation shows block C. We have the other valuation, will put it up next week. Apologies for the sloppiness. They are identical by the way. This does not answer the question "Was the money raised on your loan spent on developing the site which you had a charge over, or on the other site which MT has a charge over?"
|
|
mikes1531
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,453
Likes: 2,320
|
Post by mikes1531 on Nov 14, 2015 15:43:27 GMT
Yes, we have block B and the valuation shows block C. We have the other valuation, will put it up next week. Apologies for the sloppiness. They are identical by the way. This does not answer the question "Was the money raised on your loan spent on developing the site which you had a charge over, or on the other site which MT has a charge over?" When money is borrowed for a development project, isn't it customary to employ a Monitoring Surveyor to keep an eye on progress? Do savingstream take that approach? Or not bother?
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,329
Likes: 11,545
|
Post by ilmoro on Nov 14, 2015 15:51:32 GMT
Yes, we have block B and the valuation shows block C. We have the other valuation, will put it up next week. Apologies for the sloppiness. They are identical by the way. This does not answer the question " Was the money raised on your loan spent on developing the site which you had a charge over, or on the other site which MT has a charge over?" If you read the CR it is clear IMO. It wasnt and wasnt supposed to be. The loan was to begin development of the site, so therefore first site C as that would be the beginning, and is secured on the second site B. The loan will be repaid from sale of the appartments on the first site C, with the profit plus further development finance used to develop the second site B. Neither the MT or SS loans appear to relate to the development of the second site B as they are to be repaid on/before completion of the first C site in Sept 2016 The question is whether the proceeds from the sale of the freehold (1.55mil) plus units sold to date (c2.6mil cumulative according to MT) plus sales over the next 3 months (23 units I calculate), will be used to redeem the SS loan or whether this will be extended. If so there is also the question of whether sufficient units will be sold to repay the MT loan in 9 months (c130 units needed) In the light of the MT loan perhaps savingstream could provide some clarity on the exit plan & timescales for their loan?
|
|
webwiz
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 210
|
Post by webwiz on Nov 14, 2015 16:41:54 GMT
This seems rather odd to me. As the building work progresses value would be added to the site, adding to the security if it had been the security. Instead the value of the other site is enhanced and the borrower is able to go to another lender and borrow against the value of the work done with the proceeds of the first loan. Just to muddy the waters even more SS posted a valuation of the site which is being developed rather than the one acting as security. It may be nothing to worry about but it makes DD even more difficult.
|
|
grahamg
Member of DD Central
Posts: 220
Likes: 62
|
Post by grahamg on Nov 14, 2015 18:12:51 GMT
This does not answer the question " Was the money raised on your loan spent on developing the site which you had a charge over, or on the other site which MT has a charge over?" If you read the CR it is clear IMO. It wasnt and wasnt supposed to be. The loan was to begin development of the site, so therefore first site C as that would be the beginning, and is secured on the second site B. The loan will be repaid from sale of the appartments on the first site C, with the profit plus further development finance used to develop the second site B. Neither the MT or SS loans appear to relate to the development of the second site B as they are to be repaid on/before completion of the first C site in Sept 2016 The question is whether the proceeds from the sale of the freehold (1.55mil) plus units sold to date (c2.6mil cumulative according to MT) plus sales over the next 3 months (10-11 units I calculate), will be used to redeem the SS loan or whether this will be extended. If so there is also the question of whether sufficient units will be sold to repay the MT loan in 9 months (c63 units needed) In the light of the MT loan perhaps savingstream could provide some clarity on the exit plan & timescales for their loan? Attached picture of site in August showing construction state . looks like the end of block C to me, block B not in existance.
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,329
Likes: 11,545
|
Post by ilmoro on Nov 14, 2015 18:19:26 GMT
If you read the CR it is clear IMO. It wasnt and wasnt supposed to be. The loan was to begin development of the site, so therefore first site C as that would be the beginning, and is secured on the second site B. The loan will be repaid from sale of the appartments on the first site C, with the profit plus further development finance used to develop the second site B. Neither the MT or SS loans appear to relate to the development of the second site B as they are to be repaid on/before completion of the first C site in Sept 2016 The question is whether the proceeds from the sale of the freehold (1.55mil) plus units sold to date (c2.6mil cumulative according to MT) plus sales over the next 3 months (22 units I calculate), will be used to redeem the SS loan or whether this will be extended. If so there is also the question of whether sufficient units will be sold to repay the MT loan in 9 months (c130 units needed) In the light of the MT loan perhaps savingstream could provide some clarity on the exit plan & timescales for their loan? Attached picture of site in August showing construction state . looks like the end of block C to me, block B not in existance. As expected, not being started until C complete.
|
|
grahamg
Member of DD Central
Posts: 220
Likes: 62
|
Post by grahamg on Nov 14, 2015 18:25:40 GMT
Attached picture of site in August showing construction state . looks like the end of block C to me, block B not in existance. As expected, not being started until C complete. So SS loan secured against hole in ground! So "C loan" repays "B loan" and second MT loan builds "B" which then repays "C loan" etc etc!
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,329
Likes: 11,545
|
Post by ilmoro on Nov 14, 2015 18:31:23 GMT
As expected, not being started until C complete. So SS loan secured against hole in ground! So "C loan" repays "B loan" and second MT loan builds "B" which then repays "C loan" etc etc! No, all loans build C, all loans repaid from proceeds from sale of C. B built from C profits & new loans No hole, just 4.7mil piece of land & a road Edit SS loan also paid for B land I think
|
|
|
|
Post by ogwellian on Nov 14, 2015 20:23:41 GMT
Attached picture of site in August showing construction state . looks like the end of block C to me, block B not in existance. As expected, not being started until C complete. Out of interest how do you know it's August? I live on a new development that was started in 2011, but Google satellite still shows it as open countryside, and no roads on the map.
|
|
stevio
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,065
Likes: 894
|
Post by stevio on Nov 14, 2015 20:47:04 GMT
So SS loan secured against hole in ground! So "C loan" repays "B loan" and second MT loan builds "B" which then repays "C loan" etc etc! No, all loans build C, all loans repaid from proceeds from sale of C. B built from C profits & new loans No hole, just 4.7mil piece of land & a road Edit SS loan also paid for B land I think This is all presuming the money from SS and MT are even linked and even used on the site valued at all - we know the borrower has other projects (Cardiff being one), with other costs and income from these other projects all feeding into the same company - unless you can pin down the finances of all ongoing, future and past projects and then add in personal finances and other income, expenditure and profits - these are just guesses
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,329
Likes: 11,545
|
Post by ilmoro on Nov 14, 2015 21:12:58 GMT
No, all loans build C, all loans repaid from proceeds from sale of C. B built from C profits & new loans No hole, just 4.7mil piece of land & a road Edit SS loan also paid for B land I think This is all presuming the money from SS and MT are even linked and even used on the site valued at all - we know the borrower has other projects (Cardiff being one), with other costs and income from these other projects all feeding into the same company - unless you can pin down the finances of all ongoing, future and past projects and then add in personal finances and other income, expenditure and profits - these are just guesses Based on statements on the sites. Development finance AIUI usually has pretty strict controls to ensure it is used for what it is provided for, including regular reports from a monitoring surveyor who has full access to accounts for the project. We await any response to mikes query on that. Of course, I accept your point that the info provided may turn out to be inaccurate or untrue but seems not unreasonable to start on the premise that the borrower will do what he says he will do.
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,329
Likes: 11,545
|
Post by ilmoro on Nov 14, 2015 21:14:26 GMT
As expected, not being started until C complete. Out of interest how do you know it's August? I live on a new development that was started in 2011, but Google satellite still shows it as open countryside, and no roads on the map. Image capture date under the photo is the clue I assume 
|
|
