|
|
Post by phlitb on Mar 16, 2015 14:14:37 GMT
Meanwhile new property loan 11267 has today suddenly acquired a 1% cash back Thanks for the heads up on this, I would otherwise have missed it
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 10,015 
Likes: 5,144
|
Post by adrianc on Mar 16, 2015 14:40:52 GMT
Meanwhile new property loan 11267 has today suddenly acquired a 1% cash back Thanks for the heads up on this, I would otherwise have missed it 24% short with 20hrs to go, it needs every bit of help it can get. I wonder if that splashback will hit those who bid early?
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on Mar 16, 2015 14:49:42 GMT
I wonder if that splashback will hit those who bid early? Yes, it applies to the whole loan tranche. I recall another platform once improved a deal for late bidders and was severely (and rightly imo) criticised. I wonder if FC now have a (wise) policy of not using FCPF to fill first tranches, else the £5k on 11267 might have been taken. And it may be that they expected it to fill today and therefore did not apply a 1% cash back on the whole loan which would have been expensive. It could come back with cash back - which would be fair to the borrower.
|
|
|
|
Post by GSV3MIaC on Mar 16, 2015 16:49:43 GMT
Meanwhile new property loan 11267 has today suddenly acquired a 1% cash back Thanks for the heads up on this, I would otherwise have missed it Me too, I had thrown this one away when it had no cashback, and I expect many other may have done the same .. I don't expect things to change halfway through an auction (stupid .. this being FC one should expect anything to change at any time. 8<.)
|
|
fasty
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,038
Likes: 388
|
Post by fasty on Mar 16, 2015 17:04:21 GMT
Has the splashback for 11521 (A+, £215k) also been increased, or was that always 1%?
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on Mar 16, 2015 17:48:47 GMT
Has the splashback for 11521 (A+, £215k) also been increased, or was that always 1%? That one started with cash back - though I cannot confirm definitely it was 1%.
|
|
|
|
Post by GSV3MIaC on Mar 16, 2015 17:57:46 GMT
It was 1% the first time I captured the page, yes. That leaves ~5 minutes when it could have been changed. 8>.
|
|
|
|
Post by GSV3MIaC on Mar 16, 2015 18:10:04 GMT
But .. have they learned nothing .. here comes 11616, 8% (only) 18 months, no cash back ?!? Do you suppose there is logic to this (i.e. the rate is based on LTV, duration, cashback, loan size, and phase of the moon) or are they just rolling the magic 8 sided die?
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on Mar 16, 2015 19:49:22 GMT
I think there is some logic. 11616 is £250k and they think it can be funded with a straight 8%. The larger one the £350k 11582 has collected £211k in 4 days, and so it is not impossible to fill £250k with the full Autobidders on a first tranche. The cash back is clearly being much better targeted, and I expect that the logic goes something like 'get the first tranche away without cash back or FCPF, and bring those in with later tranches when you need to, rather than waste it where it is not required'. If the first tranche does not fly then it can be broken in two or offered again at a higher rate or with cash back. I think FC are trying hard to avoid excessive FCPF purchases of later tranches.
The corollary of this absence of a standard cash back should be that there should be the opportunity for the occasional 2% on later tranches.
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on Mar 16, 2015 22:35:27 GMT
Agreed, but who is going to help a £250k loan over the line knowing that 2% cb is an option now in use. Manual lenders/flippers/underwriters will just sit it out and only take part in the larger cb's, therefore making them more likely. Market forces in action. We're slowly wringing a reluctant cb policy out of Flippin' Customers, and 11616 at £250k might struggle without one. If it was initially listed with 0.5 it would fill, but like 11267, if it's left to the last day it will take 1%. A first tranche of <£200k should be doable in a week, >£200k needs to be a 2wk listing imho. You may well be right pepperpot. I get the impression that FC are feeling their way a bit in trying to develop a sustainable property loans methodology - minimising the loss of fees through cash back and avoiding taking too much on their balance sheet. It will take trial and error to find what works, and the limits on sizes of tranches and total projects, in relation to interest rates and cash back. They seem to have fixed on 8% for the A+ secured loans. They also seem keen to stick to one week - and I am not sure that you get many more Autobidders in the second week. The advantage of one week is that you can have two shots at it, the second improved, in a just over two weeks, whereas if you start with two weeks and it does not fly, then another two weeks for a second attempt is rather too long in total. [Edit: it is instructive to read the further Q&A on 11267 - particularly on possible re listing with cash back. FC's reply at 20.48! recognises that a policy of re listing failed loans with cash back would become self defeating. I doubt we will see 2% cash back on a first tranche - it is the subsequent tranches that may have to be filled eventually. There are a number of ways of doing that and I doubt that it will be allowed to become mechanistic and predictable.]
|
|
sl75
Posts: 2,092
Likes: 1,245
|
Post by sl75 on Mar 17, 2015 18:28:37 GMT
[Edit: it is instructive to read the further Q&A on 11267 - particularly on possible re listing with cash back. FC's reply at 20.48! recognises that a policy of re listing failed loans with cash back would become self defeating. I doubt we will see 2% cash back on a first tranche - it is the subsequent tranches that may have to be filled eventually. There are a number of ways of doing that and I doubt that it will be allowed to become mechanistic and predictable.] One could envisage scope for a number of "auction-based" mechanisms - either with a lender-specified "minimum cashback I'll accept" that can be selected instead of a rate on a fixed-rate auction, or a FC-specified cashback rate that gradually increases if the auction doesn't receive full funding with the previously-specified level of cashback. Given the existence of some "big players" who can swoop in at a moment's notice and take "the rest of the auction", there'd be some marginal incentive for smaller investors to jump in at the point the cashback became acceptable to them, as otherwise they'd need to get loan parts on the secondary market where the seller will undoubtedly not be passing on the whole of the cashback...
|
|
|
|
Post by GSV3MIaC on Mar 18, 2015 16:38:21 GMT
Sounds dangerously like 'another good deal for the autobidding suckers' - they can have all they can eat of tranche 1, or 1 and 2, with no cashback and whatever rate (above MBR) we feel like, and then, in order to sell later tranches (the autobidders being all stocked up by then) we'll offer the same thing with cashback, more cashback, or maybe a higher rate. 8<.
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on Mar 18, 2015 18:48:08 GMT
See a post today by FC's L*k* in another place on the cash back -or not-policy.
|
|
|
|
Post by GSV3MIaC on Mar 18, 2015 19:08:23 GMT
Yeah I read that .. doesn't change my opinion that this is another possible variant on the game of 'scr%w the autobidders'. 8>.
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on Mar 18, 2015 21:05:23 GMT
Yes, I'm pleased to see FC encouraging the game of 'screw the Autobidders' by having some skin in that game, rather than just leaving it to flippers and dumpers. Cash back is too good for Autobidders, they don't even know they are getting it. It's wasted on them, really.
|
|
