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Post by goldservice on Mar 23, 2015 14:37:30 GMT
... There are other platforms, but you have to examine them very carefully to be sure they are better and suit your requirements. (I am doing that now so I am not necessarily disagreeing, but not in a position to do comparisons.) If you reach a conclusion, I should be very grateful to read anything that you can share, while realising that your requirements may differ from others.
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blender
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Post by blender on Mar 23, 2015 15:03:18 GMT
... There are other platforms, but you have to examine them very carefully to be sure they are better and suit your requirements. (I am doing that now so I am not necessarily disagreeing, but not in a position to do comparisons.) If you reach a conclusion, I should be very grateful to read anything that you can share, while realising that your requirements may differ from others. Personally I would like to move away from the unsecured and go for fewer loans with higher investments on each, worth holding to term but with decent liquidity if needed. Saving time compared with FC (as I play it). I insist on 'proper' peer to peer - not lending to the platform which establishes a hypothetical connection with one of its loans, and similar principles with the security. I am not giving up on FC but like the look of Ablrate - which seems to me to be compatible with FC but optimised for secured lending - the sort of approach that I think FC might have taken if it had not tied its secured offering to a platform full of Autobidders. But it is still very much in the development phase. I will think further in the new tax year. The extended ISA options to incorporate lending will be a key development for any income tax payer. The arrangements, and the platforms' responses, may well become an important factor in choice of future platforms. But I know no more than you do, goldservice, and may just have been doing it a bit longer. You must make your own evaluation - and share your views, please.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Mar 23, 2015 15:24:00 GMT
You wait ages for a 2% cash back loan and then three come along at once. You are sounding a little unappreciative, GSV. The Cornish one for a basic rate tax payer is worth 8% on an annual basis after fees and tax (assuming no losses). More if it repays early or if you can flip. It should draw down within the week. And the LTV is really better than 63% because the interest, which FC collects and repays, is included in the loan value. Considering that the lenders have direct security on property, it is not bad. There are other platforms, but you have to examine them very carefully to be sure they are better and suit your requirements. (I am doing that now so I am not necessarily disagreeing, but not in a position to do comparisons.) Yep, the Cornish one seems not too bad (assuming no losses), and I will probably have some, but you can still get 11% or 12% (assuming no losses) elsewhere (or ~7% at Ratesetter at the moment .. assuming no losses .. without the 'bite the bullet' worry at the end of the term). If the tall one gets his mouse out it could draw down within a day or two .. and 11749 will not be far behind. However I'd still like to see (a lot more of!) some of those boring SME business loans that we have come to love (obviously not "trumpet crushers and offshore properties anonymous", though. 8>.)
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blender
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Post by blender on Mar 23, 2015 15:57:55 GMT
Of course I agree with you there, GSV. The normal business loans are no fun any more. What has upset me recently is that on the distaff account we have a good (I thought) B loan which had made six repayments and as it came towards the seventh, with the lack of new high rate loans, I went soft and decided to keep it for another month (a few hundred). And what happened? Its now late and I do not know if I will get the chance to dump it.
My own fault, for looking at the financials and Duedil - all looked good, but did not notice that it was in South Wales. I do not joke in saying that I would have sold before the seventh (late) payment at all costs if I had checked the region. Too much bad experience. Should never has bought it. OK on the diversity stakes, but I regard each loss as a personal failure.
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fasty
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Post by fasty on Mar 23, 2015 18:26:48 GMT
Of course I agree with you there, GSV. The normal business loans are no fun any more. What has upset me recently is that on the distaff account we have a good (I thought) B loan which had made six repayments and as it came towards the seventh, with the lack of new high rate loans, I went soft and decided to keep it for another month (a few hundred). And what happened? Its now late and I do not know if I will get the chance to dump it. My own fault, for looking at the financials and Duedil - all looked good, but did not notice that it was in South Wales. I do not joke in saying that I would have sold before the seventh (late) payment at all costs if I had checked the region. Too much bad experience. Should never has bought it. OK on the diversity stakes, but I regard each loss as a personal failure. I got caught with that B loan too blender. I had reduced my exposure but decided to hang on to some until the market picked up again <duh>
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Post by p2perrr on Mar 23, 2015 20:14:01 GMT
Hmmm - 11738 Seems to have vanished ... maybe I shouldn't have mentioned it 
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Mar 23, 2015 21:29:09 GMT
Yep, the one thing you can't fault on the property loans is their draw-down time (and the speed with which they get regurgitated on the SM, sans most of the cash back).
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fasty
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Post by fasty on Mar 23, 2015 23:42:33 GMT
Someone is being optimistic trying to sell 11738 at a 1% premium, though... or do people accidentally buy that sort of thing?
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Mar 24, 2015 9:41:48 GMT
IME very rarely .. maybe if there are just one or two above it in the sorted list, which get sold before the user gets to the actual list page .. they then click on the top one before they discover it was not the 14.3% A+ they had hoped for (been eaten by a bot) but the 7.8% part which used to be further down the list. But with these property loans with 500+ parts for sale I can't imagine how you could do it.
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blender
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Post by blender on Mar 24, 2015 9:49:47 GMT
It is easy to hit the 1% setting occasionally instead of the -1% setting when listing manually.
11749 suddenly filled (100k+) just after I had put in my bids in. It seems that bidders (including me) were trying to fill and close one loan first rather than having two similar loans move up more slowly together. I will not delay on 11742 now.
The second part of yesterday's is now up.
The current cash back policy is not looking like a promotion - but let's not worry.
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Post by goldservice on Mar 24, 2015 10:17:13 GMT
Why do some of you (apparently) buy into the second tranche rather than just buying more of the first tranche when it was open? I buy on the first tranche up to my diversification limit. Then I pass on subsequent tranches. Do others go over their usual diversification limit on these property loans? Is that because of the first charge?
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Mar 24, 2015 10:21:57 GMT
Will be interesting to see whether / how fast the second tranche fills up, so soon after everyone filled up on the first. Is the same 2% CB enough ...?! Where do they go next if it proves not to be?
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blender
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Post by blender on Mar 24, 2015 11:10:32 GMT
Why do some of you (apparently) buy into the second tranche rather than just buying more of the first tranche when it was open? I buy on the first tranche up to my diversification limit. Then I pass on subsequent tranches. Do others go over their usual diversification limit on these property loans? Is that because of the first charge? Hi Goldservice. Second question first - yes, in that the risk is in delayed payment rather than loss. If you plan to sell the loan parts before repayment then for the fixed rate property loans there is no risk with the interest payments. There is a slight risk of downgrading if the project runs into delays - but slack is built into the time scales anyway. You have to make your own assessment of risk, but personally, with these property loans, I do not have diversification rules and it is just a matter of what is available when money comes back. And some times you can sell the first tranche at a small discount and gain another 2% on a later tranche at exactly the same time! In any case it is not a bad idea to use these 2% secured property loans to get your money in and earning, and then to use that cash back to sell and buy, to diversify as other business loans become available. If doing that then go for the longer property development interest-only loans (not commercial loans), to almost eliminate risk for at least six months. Some of us are re-lending our previous profits, (rather than building a holding), and so it is much more comfortable to have, effectively, no more in one loan than half of net earnings to date. Safer than a diversified equity holding where the whole market can take a dive (I remember painfully). Best to make your own rules suited to your own circumstances and objectives, and not rely too much on rules for Autobidders. There will be other opinions from those with more conventional/sensible risk profiles. If I lost all my FC money I would be shocked and much poorer - but it would not be a disaster.
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fasty
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Post by fasty on Mar 24, 2015 14:00:44 GMT
In case anyone missed it, another property loan request recently appeared :
11781 £325k first tranche, A+, 8%+2% splashback.
Fill yer boots if you fancy some.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Mar 24, 2015 18:56:14 GMT
Why do some of you (apparently) buy into the second tranche rather than just buying more of the first tranche when it was open? I buy on the first tranche up to my diversification limit. Then I pass on subsequent tranches. Do others go over their usual diversification limit on these property loans? Is that because of the first charge? Goldservice - I buy to my diversification limit, but immediately put most/all of the parts up for sale (usually at par, i.e. to autobidders) .. if any actually sell (and they usually do, slowly) then I repurchase in later tranches to make up the difference. On odd occasions I have even repurchased on the SM at a discount (more than 0.25% obviously), if there was no sign of a later tranche. My diversification limit for property loans (interest only) is rather higher than for holding other loans, because (as has been said) there is better security, and the interest is pretty much guaranteed until you get to the nasty bullet at the end. YMMV. If FC ever fixed autobuy to go buy the best priced parts on the SM instead of any parts at par, this strategy would need reworking (flipping for 1.75% makes some sort of sense, flipping for 0.25% doesn't make sense to me, but apparently does to others).
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