hendragon
Member of DD Central
Posts: 631
Likes: 619
|
Post by hendragon on Mar 10, 2015 20:42:41 GMT
loan 46 has a late payment. When this was questioned AC stated that "We have for the last few months been receiving a monthly standing order direct from the borrower. This has been made with no issues hence why it has not been checked."
The credit report for the loan stated Rental income mandated to Assetz Capital.
AC seem to have altered the terms of the loan without any reference to borrowers. I fail to understand why this could have happened unless there is a very unpleasant, or downright dishonest explanation that comes to mind. An investment was made using the credit report stating an rationale Control of asset (via first legal charge) and rental income stream (via mandate) Existing rental income demonstrates serviceability of proposed loan Additional surplus rental income from separate property , and employment income L ow loan to value. These quotes have been taken from the credit report. It is not a matter of information supplied from the borrower but a statement of how the loan will be dealt with by AC. Advice if this should be a matter to be brought before the Financial authorities would be appreciated
|
|
|
Post by bracknellboy on Mar 10, 2015 21:32:42 GMT
I would have thought that the first recourse is to seek a 'deeper' explanation from AC as to 'why' than has been provided on the Q&A. If one was not happy with that, I would think you would next have to satisfy yourself that there is nothing in ACs general Ts and Cs which allow them to make such an apparent change unilaterally.
Having gone and looked at the credit report and the multiple statements of assignment of rental income to AC through the report, with no statement that this was for a time limited initial period only, it could be described as 'surprising' that this is not in fact what is happening. Without knowing what ACs explanation is, on the face of it this appears to be a (considerable ?) material change to the basis on which people lent.
However, perhaps another take on it is that the covenant / mandate still exists but AC decided to allow a 'revokeable' waiver. Given that there is a 6 month interest buffer held, and a 1st charge on the property, if such a waiver existed and in practical terms it can be reversed at whim so that rental monies going forward are paid into ACs coffers as originallyh stated, one might perhaps argue there has been no material change.
I am not in this loan, but will be extremely interested to hear the story / explanation.
|
|
|
Post by mrclondon on Mar 10, 2015 22:28:31 GMT
Flagging this thread for andrewholgate or davidricketts1 ; at face vaue something has gone badly wrong - unless we are missunderstanding how the concept of mandated rent works - I suppose the rent could go into a dedicated (i.e. segregated) borrower account and straight back out to AC. Could potentially affect many more loans than just this one of course.
|
|
sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
Posts: 1,428
Likes: 1,212
|
Post by sqh on Mar 10, 2015 22:39:28 GMT
I'm guessing that the rental mandate only applied until 6 months surplus interest has accrued. The CR isn't very clear, but the covenant on page 5 says that 6 months interest buffer to be built up from first 4 months rent.
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,329
Likes: 11,549
|
Post by ilmoro on Mar 10, 2015 22:49:05 GMT
I'm guessing that the rental mandate only applied until 6 months surplus interest has accrued. The CR isn't very clear, but the covenant on page 5 says that 6 months interest buffer to be built up from first 4 months rent. But it also says in the Financial Risks section, p8 In any event, to mitigate any risk of not receiving the payments due on the loan the rental income will be mandated to us directly from the tenant and a 6 month interest buffer will be held on the Trust account.No mention of any time limit and I dont interpret these statements as linked. The risk of not receiving payment presumably exists until at least 6 months from the end of the term when the buffer would cover the remaining payments.
|
|
sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
Posts: 1,428
Likes: 1,212
|
Post by sqh on Mar 10, 2015 23:16:47 GMT
I'm guessing that the rental mandate only applied until 6 months surplus interest has accrued. The CR isn't very clear, but the covenant on page 5 says that 6 months interest buffer to be built up from first 4 months rent. But it also says in the Financial Risks section, p8 In any event, to mitigate any risk of not receiving the payments due on the loan the rental income will be mandated to us directly from the tenant and a 6 month interest buffer will be held on the Trust account.No mention of any time limit and I dont interpret these statements as linked. The risk of not receiving payment presumably exists until at least 6 months from the end of the term when the buffer would cover the remaining payments. This is a 5 year loan. If AC received the rental income each month the loan would be paid off in less than 3 years.
|
|
pikestaff
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,187
Likes: 1,546
|
Post by pikestaff on Mar 10, 2015 23:52:35 GMT
I tend to agree with the last observation but the key point for me is the 6 month buffer. At the very least the mandate should operate to maintain the 6 month buffer, in which case there should never be a late payment. Any significant erosion of the buffer would indicate a problem.
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,329
Likes: 11,549
|
Post by ilmoro on Mar 11, 2015 0:23:33 GMT
But it also says in the Financial Risks section, p8 In any event, to mitigate any risk of not receiving the payments due on the loan the rental income will be mandated to us directly from the tenant and a 6 month interest buffer will be held on the Trust account.No mention of any time limit and I dont interpret these statements as linked. The risk of not receiving payment presumably exists until at least 6 months from the end of the term when the buffer would cover the remaining payments. This is a 5 year loan. If AC received the rental income each month the loan would be paid off in less than 3 years. Fair point. Poorly written document. I tend to agree with the last observation but the key point for me is the 6 month buffer. At the very least the mandate should operate to maintain the 6 month buffer, in which case there should never be a late payment. Any significant erosion of the buffer would indicate a problem. Though we wouldnt know about an issue if the buffer had been used to cover the late payment without a specific statement from AC - anything that obliges them to inform us?
|
|
andy2001
Member of DD Central
Posts: 361
Likes: 34
|
Post by andy2001 on Mar 11, 2015 0:50:44 GMT
From the Q&A
Update on the tenant position was requested from the borrower when loan repayment was chased yesterday.
The borrower will be chased again tomorrow and should no response be forthcoming then funds to cover interest will be provided from the interest buffer that is still held as expected.
Answered by Assetz Capital 10th Mar 2015 at 20:06
|
|
mikes1531
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,453
Likes: 2,320
|
Post by mikes1531 on Mar 11, 2015 4:11:45 GMT
andy2001: If you're going to quote from the Q&A, why not use the one from Tuesday morning... Did the borrower confirm the position with payment by early that afternoon? NO. Did AC use the funds held in the interest buffer to pay AC's lenders? NO!! I dearly wish AC would start doing what they say going to do.
|
|
hendragon
Member of DD Central
Posts: 631
Likes: 619
|
Post by hendragon on Mar 11, 2015 7:49:23 GMT
my impression of the mandate was that AC get the rental income, and after building up the interest buffer, pay the excess to the borrower.
|
|
|
Post by batchoy on Mar 11, 2015 8:32:07 GMT
my impression of the mandate was that AC get the rental income, and after building up the interest buffer, pay the excess to the borrower. My interpretation is the same as you. The mandate runs for the length of the loan, the rental income is payed directly to the AC Client account, over the first four months of the loan any excess income not used to make repayments is used to create a 6 month payment buffer after which one then assumes the excess income is paid to the borrower. Any non-payment now means that either AC have failed to enforce the mandate, AC have failed to remember that they hold the retained buffer (didn't they do that on another loan) or there has been no rental income for the past six months in which case AC have failed in their duty to Lenders in not passing on the information. Any which way you look at it there is a failure in some way on AC's part
|
|
hendragon
Member of DD Central
Posts: 631
Likes: 619
|
Post by hendragon on Mar 11, 2015 8:38:52 GMT
thanks to mrclondon for flagging up this thread. Also thanks for all contributions and opinions. I have posted a direct question on the loan q&a page asking why there seems to be clear breach of one of the loan covenants. I await the response with interest and will update when the answer is made.
|
|
j
Member of DD Central
Penguins are very misunderstood!
Posts: 2,188
Likes: 540
|
Post by j on Mar 11, 2015 9:15:42 GMT
my impression of the mandate was that AC get the rental income, and after building up the interest buffer, pay the excess to the borrower. My interpretation is the same as you. The mandate runs for the length of the loan, the rental income is payed directly to the AC Client account, over the first four months of the loan any excess income not used to make repayments is used to create a 6 month payment buffer after which one then assumes the excess income is paid to the borrower. Any non-payment now means that either AC have failed to enforce the mandate, AC have failed to remember that they hold the retained buffer (didn't they do that on another loan) or there has been no rental income for the past six months in which case AC have failed in their duty to Lenders in not passing on the information. Any which way you look at it there is a failure in some way on AC's part There was a late payment on L***s Commercial loan a few months back where a buffer had already been built up as per CR. That loan, in all fairness barring this one month, has always been a prompt payer bur AC had totally forgotten the aforementioned & a lender reminded them & they duly paid interest out of the buffer. It is little things like this that start small seeds of doubt on whether a ship is either manned well enough or being sailed properly.
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,329
Likes: 11,549
|
Post by ilmoro on Mar 11, 2015 9:24:45 GMT
Loan now suspended while they look down the back of the sofa
|
|