mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jul 29, 2014 21:13:40 GMT
I think it's time for an update from savingstream regarding this loan. I presume the borrower's buyer went away empty-handed. The loan was renewed on 7/Jan, so its six months would have been up on 7/Jul. That was over three weeks ago. So what's happening? Is there going to be another renewal? Or is SS going to have to foreclose on this loan and put the boat up for sale by auction? I agree that this is interesting, but if I'm remembering correctly (and I know someone will be quick to correct me if I'm wrong on this  ) we don't have any involvement in the messy business of foreclosure, so we don't strictly NEED to know. SS will simply close our loans at the end of the 7 months (because there is always a 7th month with SS boat loans during which payments, renewals or 'none of the above' can get sorted), and deal with it all themselves. I THINK, but won't swear to it because I've been proved to have a faulty memory on occasion, that it's happened before this way. It would be nice if savingstream were to do that, as it would eliminate the possibility of default losses and make SS even more attractive to investors. And I have a hazy memory that suggests SS may have said that's what they'd like to do. If SS has made a commitment like that, however, they haven't yet updated their Ts&Cs to reflect that. What the Terms say now is... If the plan still is as set out in the Terms then, having seen on other platforms the amount of time required to go through the liquidation process and the deep discounts to valuations needed because of the thinness of the market for selling the security -- which probably applies to boat loans as well -- and seeing from the SS Terms that interest due to investors ranks behind the SS/Lendy fees -- which includes the extra 5% fee (see above) in the case of a default -- then there is a risk that investors will not receive all of their accrued interest. The fact that SS/Lendy boat loans are for no more than 50% of the valuation reduces that risk, but it does not eliminate it. And while investor capital is first ranking on the list above, if the borrower defaults there likely would be a noticeable delay before that capital could be repaid. Based on the above, I think we deserve an update from SS. It would be useful to know whether to expect a return of/on my investment in this loan in the near future or after a delay, and also to know whether the borrower wants to renew the loan, which would create an investment opportunity for all SS investors. And while on this subject, perhaps SS also could provide updates on the Bourne 43 and the Converted Lifeboat loans inasmuch as both of those also matured over two weeks ago.
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ramblin rose
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“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
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Post by ramblin rose on Jul 30, 2014 8:53:44 GMT
I agree that this is interesting, but if I'm remembering correctly (and I know someone will be quick to correct me if I'm wrong on this ) we don't have any involvement in the messy business of foreclosure, so we don't strictly NEED to know. SS will simply close our loans at the end of the 7 months (because there is always a 7th month with SS boat loans during which payments, renewals or 'none of the above' can get sorted), and deal with it all themselves. I THINK, but won't swear to it because I've been proved to have a faulty memory on occasion, that it's happened before this way. It would be nice if savingstream were to do that, as it would eliminate the possibility of default losses and make SS even more attractive to investors. And I have a hazy memory that suggests SS may have said that's what they'd like to do. If SS has made a commitment like that, however, they haven't yet updated their Ts&Cs to reflect that. What the Terms say now is... If the plan still is as set out in the Terms then, having seen on other platforms the amount of time required to go through the liquidation process and the deep discounts to valuations needed because of the thinness of the market for selling the security -- which probably applies to boat loans as well -- and seeing from the SS Terms that interest due to investors ranks behind the SS/Lendy fees -- which includes the extra 5% fee (see above) in the case of a default -- then there is a risk that investors will not receive all of their accrued interest. The fact that SS/Lendy boat loans are for no more than 50% of the valuation reduces that risk, but it does not eliminate it. And while investor capital is first ranking on the list above, if the borrower defaults there likely would be a noticeable delay before that capital could be repaid. Based on the above, I think we deserve an update from SS. It would be useful to know whether to expect a return of/on my investment in this loan in the near future or after a delay, and also to know whether the borrower wants to renew the loan, which would create an investment opportunity for all SS investors. And while on this subject, perhaps SS also could provide updates on the Bourne 43 and the Converted Lifeboat loans inasmuch as both of those also matured over two weeks ago. Mike, you are of course correct about this, and this is what we have all agreed to, so it is what could happen. However, you may remember at the start there were a lot of issues with the Ts and Cs that had been apparently lifted from elsewhere and were full of things that weren't applicable. As far as I'm aware, SS never did do a complete rewrite (as would have been the proper thing to do). At that same time there was a lot of discussion around what would happen about defaults, and in this post, both here and on the Zopa forum I believe, SS said this: 3) The third point (as mentioned in a previous post) is that if there is a default on the loan and the sale of the asset does not cover the the full repayment due to the saver/lender then Saving Stream will cover any shortfall. The saver/lender's return is a set arrangement with Saving Stream and is not dependant on whether the sale of the asset that a loan is secured against covers the loan + interest.and what I'm saying is I think we've already seen this happening. Since their Ts and Cs don't seem to be right, it is a matter of trust that this will happen, which I agree is not good enough. But so far, I've found them to be true to their word and things do happen when they say they will, and in the way they say they will, so at the moment I'm happy to continue to extend that trust. In return for that trust I've been getting a good deal.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jul 30, 2014 20:08:15 GMT
It would be nice if savingstream were to do that, as it would eliminate the possibility of default losses and make SS even more attractive to investors. And I have a hazy memory that suggests SS may have said that's what they'd like to do. Mike, you are of course correct about this, and this is what we have all agreed to, so it is what could happen. However, you may remember at the start there were a lot of issues with the Ts and Cs that had been apparently lifted from elsewhere and were full of things that weren't applicable. As far as I'm aware, SS never did do a complete rewrite (as would have been the proper thing to do). At that same time there was a lot of discussion around what would happen about defaults, and in this post, both here and on the Zopa forum I believe, SS said this: 3) The third point (as mentioned in a previous post) is that if there is a default on the loan and the sale of the asset does not cover the the full repayment due to the saver/lender then Saving Stream will cover any shortfall. The saver/lender's return is a set arrangement with Saving Stream and is not dependant on whether the sale of the asset that a loan is secured against covers the loan + interest.and what I'm saying is I think we've already seen this happening. Since their Ts and Cs don't seem to be right, it is a matter of trust that this will happen, which I agree is not good enough. But so far, I've found them to be true to their word and things do happen when they say they will, and in the way they say they will, so at the moment I'm happy to continue to extend that trust. In return for that trust I've been getting a good deal. : Thanks for digging out that position statement from savingstream. I did say I thought SS might have said that, but it's good to know it is documented here. That's good news, and quite reassuring. With a bit of luck SS won't ever have to do that, but it's great that they're prepared to do it if necessary. However, I'd still like to have updates on the loans that have matured as it will help me evaluate the validity of the SS model and their performance in dealing with non-performing loans. If they're doing their job well, it would build up confidence in the platform, so it should help SS as well. Finally, perhaps SS could clarify their previous statement to say what they intend to do if a loan is not paid off on time. Will lenders be repaid on the maturity date out of SS/Lendy funds? Or will the security be liquidated and the lenders receive their capital and accrued interest when that is settled -- the bulk of the payment coming from the sale proceeds with a payment from SS being made only if a top-up is necessary. In short, it's a question of time -- will the lenders always receive their returns by the maturity date, or do they have to wait for the asset sale to be concluded if the borrower doesn't pay the loan off as agreed?
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Aug 14, 2014 22:00:06 GMT
Anyone tried their SM? What are the fees?
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 14, 2014 22:48:14 GMT
Anyone tried their SM? What are the fees? No fees.
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ramblin rose
Member of DD Central
“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
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Post by ramblin rose on Aug 15, 2014 9:39:28 GMT
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) we don't have any involvement in the messy business of foreclosure, so we don't strictly NEED to know. SS will simply close our loans at the end of the 7 months (because there is always a 7th month with SS boat loans during which payments, renewals or 'none of the above' can get sorted), and deal with it all themselves. I THINK, but won't swear to it because I've been proved to have a faulty memory on occasion, that it's happened before this way.
