duck
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Post by duck on Mar 18, 2015 17:37:53 GMT
Have I been asleep on watch, didn't know this was coming
I hold 'old' loans at Zopa and RS that still show/have lender fees (others probably as well) what about selling fees on aftermarket sales? Anybody know where this came from so I can have a read up?
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far
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Post by far on Mar 18, 2015 18:04:58 GMT
Came as a bit of news to me too but there has been discussion about this here previously. |
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duck
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Post by duck on Mar 18, 2015 18:19:41 GMT
Thanks far I hadn't read that before, but that begs the question that if and they are not from April 2015 is it just a 'clarification' of HMRC rules that has taken place (and HMRC have waved the past) or is there new legislation in place from April?
Still no clearer on buying/selling fees though .......
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 18, 2015 22:33:50 GMT
Thanks far I hadn't read that before, but that begs the question that if and they are not from April 2015 is it just a 'clarification' of HMRC rules that has taken place (and HMRC have waved the past) or is there new legislation in place from April?
Still no clearer on buying/selling fees though ....... I think there had been discussion of the subject between Zopa and HMRC, and HMRC agreed they would let the then-existing fees be deductible from income until next month. Now that the rules may be a bit clearer, the platforms can structure their fees in the most tax-efficient way. Why it should make any difference whether the fees are subtracted from each individual payment as opposed to collected up and debited once a month is beyond me. But as long as the platforms can rearrange their fees to make HMRC happy, then I'm happy.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Mar 18, 2015 23:01:55 GMT
Have I been asleep on watch, didn't know this was coming
I hold 'old' loans at Zopa and RS that still show/have lender fees (others probably as well) what about selling fees on aftermarket sales? Anybody know where this came from so I can have a read up? I was aware that there was an potential issue about lender fees, but not that there had been a definitive ruling. I hope that all affected platforms will be doing something along the lines of what Zopa say they are doing, in time for 6 April, so that the issue will go away. Selling fees are different. IMO they are a reduction in sales proceeds (just like the cost of share sales) so cannot possibly be deductible against income tax. They would, however, be relevant to the calculation of the capital gain or loss on the sale of the loan to which they relate, if the sale is considered to be within the scope of capital gains tax. Sales of p2p loans by the original lender are generally considered to be outside the scope of CGT on the basis that the loans are "simple debts", but this may not be the case where loans have been bought on the secondary market and then re-sold. This will depend on how SM purchases are structured on the relevant platform. See the tax FAQ on FC here support.fundingcircle.com/entries/22557912-What-are-the-tax-consequences-of-lending-as-an-individual- especially the third bullet under "Taxation of sales of loan parts for a premium or discount". Whether HMRC actually pursues anybody for CGT on re-sales of SM purchases where the purchase has not been structured to avoid it (as they are on FC, where "purchases" are not purchases at all) is another matter.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 19, 2015 3:21:36 GMT
Has there been any clarity on cashback payments? Some platforms seem to think they're ordinary income, and others seem to think they're an inducement to invest. IMHO the latter would be equivalent to selling fees and be an adjustment to the cost of the loan part, which only would affect a lender's CGT liability -- if they had enough CGs to owe CGT.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Mar 19, 2015 8:08:08 GMT
Has there been any clarity on cashback payments? Some platforms seem to think they're ordinary income, and others seem to think they're an inducement to invest. IMHO the latter would be equivalent to selling fees and be an adjustment to the cost of the loan part, which only would affect a lender's CGT liability -- if they had enough CGs to owe CGT. Not that I am aware of. As you know, I think it depends on the circumstances. For ease of reference my view (which others may not have seen) is here p2pindependentforum.com/post/34918/thread
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duck
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Post by duck on Mar 19, 2015 13:42:07 GMT
I don't think this has anything to do with my original post (!) ...... unless the system is being tidied up ready for this
From my accountants post budget news update.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Mar 19, 2015 13:44:35 GMT
Jam tomorrow!
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 19, 2015 15:07:26 GMT
I'd think 'Revisions Tomorrow' is more likely. If the new rule is no tax deduction at source for all interest, then that will be fine for those who have total earnings below the new tax-free allowance. But what about those of use who earn more interest than that? If it all came from one source, the amount up to the allowance could be paid gross and tax deduction could start after that. But I expect most people with that much interest income are getting it from multiple sources. If they had one source that earned more interest than the allowance, that approach could be used alongside full tax deductions from the other sources. But it sounds at least as bad as the current system. And if none of a saver's accounts earns enough to utilise their whole allowance... The idea that all my interest sources would supply info regarding my earnings into a central HMRC system that would work out my tax due sounds like a wonderful idea but I have my doubts whether it could be implemented well enough for me to be convinced that it's working correctly. This could be interesting. I hope I live long enough to see it operating without errors.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Mar 19, 2015 15:26:11 GMT
"This could be interesting. I hope I live long enough to see it operating without errors."
Yes. Looks very like a simplistic budget "feel-good" announcement where the politicians are electioneering, and they now say to someone else (HMRC) (with reduced staffing) "you work out how to do it by April 2016, that's nothing to do with us".
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 19, 2015 16:25:28 GMT
"This could be interesting. I hope I live long enough to see it operating without errors."
Yes. Looks very like a simplistic budget "feel-good" announcement where the politicians are electioneering, and they now say to someone else (HMRC) (with reduced staffing) "you work out how to do it by April 2016, that's nothing to do with us".
: You forgot to add "... and we'll be cutting your budget again."
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duck
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Post by duck on Mar 19, 2015 17:33:13 GMT
"This could be interesting. I hope I live long enough to see it operating without errors."
Yes. Looks very like a simplistic budget "feel-good" announcement where the politicians are electioneering, and they now say to someone else (HMRC) (with reduced staffing) "you work out how to do it by April 2016, that's nothing to do with us".
: You forgot to add "... and we'll be cutting your budget again." "Oh and whilst you are at it HMRC sort out the Google tax will you ............."
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sand2880
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Post by sand2880 on Mar 19, 2015 20:21:12 GMT
Read on HMRC budget overview, that they adjust your tax code to take account of interest over 1k...maybe through the new digital account?  |
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 19, 2015 21:59:06 GMT
Read on HMRC budget overview, that they adjust your tax code to take account of interest over 1k...maybe through the new digital account? That might be fine for those who are employed and are covered by PAYE. But what about all of us who are no longer employed? My income comes purely from my investments. If I have a tax code, I don't know what it is. And, in any case, it's irrelevant because none of my income sources pay any attention to it. They might be forced to ask for it in future, but I don't see what use they could put it to since each payer provides only a small part of my income. AIUI, a tax code is only of use where most of someone's income comes from a single source.
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