paulg
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Post by paulg on Apr 1, 2015 1:43:23 GMT
Paul I too have sold loan parts and according to my figures have been paid 1 day short, more hassle than its worth trying to prove I'm right. That's if they reply. Can you you post an example, because people won't understand what you mean.  PS tell them they owe me a £1, I think it was. Edit: I am talking about sales I made several months ago, so not this month. Ie probably a long standing problem. Anyone else? Well to elaborate Liz the example I quoted above was an actual loan part that we bought on 24th Feb. At the end of Feb we received 4 days interest on it, which takes it up to the 28th Feb, so March's interest should be from 28th Feb to 24th March when we sold it, so should be 24 days interest, but we only received 23 days. I found several examples of those errors in this month's list of interest payments. (We're calculating the interest as "loan value" * 12% / 365 * "no. of days held" ) We have other loan parts bought in Feb which we still hold and they received the full 31 days March interest. We also found examples of loans bought during March and sold before the end of March and on all of those the interest is correct. e.g. A loan part bought on 13th March and sold on 16th March received 3 days interest. The incorrect payments just seem to relate to loans bought prior to March and sold during March. I haven't noticed this problem before. We're out about £7 this month so we will chase it.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Apr 1, 2015 6:56:20 GMT
Looks inconsistent, but if you were paid up to 28 Feb that is done. Then starting on 1 March, if you sold on 24 March, then you haven't invested for the full 24, so will receive interest for 23 full days, so that would be correct. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?
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paulg
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Post by paulg on Apr 1, 2015 8:50:06 GMT
Looks inconsistent, but if you were paid up to 28 Feb that is done. Then starting on 1 March, if you sold on 24 March, then you haven't invested for the full 24, so will receive interest for 23 full days, so that would be correct. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick? No that's not correct. If I buy on 24th Feb and sell on 24th March then I've held the part for 28 days and accessing the sold loan part details from the transaction page confirms this. It also shows the total interest earned by the loan part is 28 days worth. But the interest actually paid only amounts to 27 days - 4 days for Feb and 23 days for March. Interest payable is accrued from the last day of one month to the last day of the following month.
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spockie
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Post by spockie on Apr 1, 2015 14:05:05 GMT
I'm with oldgrumpy on this one. If you sold it on 24th, it will be the person who bought it who gets the interest for 24th. You will get the interest for 1-23rd I believe. |
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paulg
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Post by paulg on Apr 1, 2015 15:01:56 GMT
I'm with oldgrumpy on this one. If you sold it on 24th, it will be the person who bought it who gets the interest for 24th. You will get the interest for 1-23rd I believe. Interest is earned by holding the loan part at midnight - if you check your live loans in the dashboard at 00:01 am you will see the number of days held and the interest earned have indexed up, irrespective of the time you bought the loan part. I'm not suggesting I would get interest for the night of 24th March, I'm saying I should get it for the night of 28th Feb, because the interest paid at the end of Feb was for loans held up to the start of the day 28th Feb not the end. So for March the interest period is from 28th Feb to 24th March = 24 days. That's how my loan parts were paid at the end of Feb, and that tallies with the figures quoted by SS in a summary of the sold loan part which is accessible from the transaction page. We were alerted to the errors because the figures provided by SS of earned interest don't balance with the interest paid for March, whereas they have balanced for previous months.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Apr 1, 2015 15:57:33 GMT
We were alerted to the errors because the figures provided by SS of earned interest don't balance with the interest paid for March, whereas they have balanced for previous months. If the interest reported as earned on the Tax Statement doesn't match the amounts credited to lenders' accounts then there is a real problem. I think it's time for a statement from savingstream!
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paulg
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Post by paulg on Apr 1, 2015 16:37:48 GMT
We were alerted to the errors because the figures provided by SS of earned interest don't balance with the interest paid for March, whereas they have balanced for previous months. If the interest reported as earned on the Tax Statement doesn't match the amounts credited to lenders' accounts then there is a real problem. I think it's time for a statement from savingstream! That's not what I'm saying, maybe I haven't expressed myself very clearly. I'm saying that if you look at the summary of a sold loan part, which can be accessed by clicking on the word "interest" for that sold loan part on the Transaction page, the figures of loan term and interest earned do not match the interest actually paid as shown on the transaction page. Also, if you add up the totals of interest earned in the dashboard views of Live loans, Repaid loans, and Sold loans; deduct from that total any interest earned on loan parts not yet drawn down; it should equal the total of interest paid - but it no longer does after the March interest was paid, whereas it did before. So there is a deficit between what should have been paid and what actually has been paid. And if you add up all the 1 day shortfalls of the affected March interest payments they amount to that deficit, (allowing for roundings up and down). I'm beginning to wish I hadn't mentioned this on the forum  I must get out more!
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Apr 1, 2015 17:53:44 GMT
If the interest reported as earned on the Tax Statement doesn't match the amounts credited to lenders' accounts then there is a real problem. I think it's time for a statement from savingstream! That's not what I'm saying, maybe I haven't expressed myself very clearly. I'm saying that if you look at the summary of a sold loan part, which can be accessed by clicking on the word "interest" for that sold loan part on the Transaction page, the figures of loan term and interest earned do not match the interest actually paid as shown on the transaction page. Also, if you add up the totals of interest earned in the dashboard views of Live loans, Repaid loans, and Sold loans; deduct from that total any interest earned on loan parts not yet drawn down; it should equal the total of interest paid - but it no longer does after the March interest was paid, whereas it did before. So there is a deficit between what should have been paid and what actually has been paid. And if you add up all the 1 day shortfalls of the affected March interest payments they amount to that deficit, (allowing for roundings up and down). OK. Understood. Have you tried looking at the Tax Statement for the period to see which set of numbers it agrees with?
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paulg
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Post by paulg on Apr 1, 2015 18:21:23 GMT
Have you tried looking at the Tax Statement for the period to see which set of numbers it agrees with? Yes. The tax statement generated agrees with the Transaction page which shows actual interest paid.
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ramblin rose
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Post by ramblin rose on Apr 7, 2015 15:14:40 GMT
I do a lot of loan part selling and I've had this happen often, and I've always queried it. Mostly SS have corrected it once I've pointed it out without argument. On just one occasion I had a reply stating that it was as a result of the time at which I sold it. I've sent emails months ago pointing out that every other part of the system (the accrued interest on the sold loan parts page and the accrued interest which increments at midnight each day on live loans) agreed with the days of interest I felt I was owed and asking for an explanation of how it was calculated. There does seem to be a time-related issue in the case of mine, and I've not been able to pinpoint this exactly, but it almost seems as though the 12:00 being used by the payment system on sold loan parts might erroneously be the 12:00 mid-day and not 12:00 midnight. I say 'almost' because I think I've had examples that disprove that. However, I now only sell in the afternoon, and I've not had the problem occur since I've been doing that - proves nothing, but does nothing to dissuade me from my theory either. I have asked SS on repeated occasions to explain all of this, and whereas I normally have excellent response to emails with them, on this occasion they've not replied. I'm still catching up with stuff after a break, but once I've done that, perhaps I'll rattle their cage again. Unless, of course, savingstream wish to comment now? |
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paulg
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Post by paulg on Apr 8, 2015 12:01:17 GMT
I do a lot of loan part selling and I've had this happen often, and I've always queried it. Mostly SS have corrected it once I've pointed it out without argument. On just one occasion I had a reply stating that it was as a result of the time at which I sold it. I've sent emails months ago pointing out that every other part of the system (the accrued interest on the sold loan parts page and the accrued interest which increments at midnight each day on live loans) agreed with the days of interest I felt I was owed and asking for an explanation of how it was calculated. There does seem to be a time-related issue in the case of mine, and I've not been able to pinpoint this exactly, but it almost seems as though the 12:00 being used by the payment system on sold loan parts might erroneously be the 12:00 mid-day and not 12:00 midnight. I say 'almost' because I think I've had examples that disprove that. However, I now only sell in the afternoon, and I've not had the problem occur since I've been doing that - proves nothing, but does nothing to dissuade me from my theory either. I have asked SS on repeated occasions to explain all of this, and whereas I normally have excellent response to emails with them, on this occasion they've not replied. I'm still catching up with stuff after a break, but once I've done that, perhaps I'll rattle their cage again. Unless, of course, savingstream wish to comment now? Hi Ramblin Rose. We have been corresponding with savingstream on this and had one reply, but then Easter intervened and we've not heard back from them this week yet. We buy and sell at various times of the day so I don't about the mid-day point. The problem with the March interest payments only applies to loan parts which were bought on or before the 28th Feb and sold during March. My wife has 17 such interest payments for sold loan parts and every single one of them is 1 days' interest short. Where her loan parts were held throughout March the interest payments are all correct, likewise where a loan part was bought and sold during March the payments were correct. For example she bought on 12th March and sold on 13th March and received I days' interest. She bought on 13th March and sold on 16th march and received 3 days' interest. But a loan part bought on 28th Feb and sold on 17th March only received 16 days' interest, when it should have been 17. (No interest paid in Feb.) And a part bought on 24th Feb and sold on 24th March received 4 days interest in Feb payments (correctly) but only 23 days interest in March, which totals 27 days for a loan part term of 28 days. All 17 such payments were all similarly 1 day short. It's as if for the sold loan parts they have to put in a start date manually and they've put in 1st March instead of 28th Feb. We didn't have this problem with the Feb interest payments. For example she bought a part on 27th Jan and sold on 2nd Feb and received 4 days' interest for Jan and 2 days for Feb, total 6 days, which is what I would expect. So something must have been done differently for the March interest payments. We've no reason to think that my wife has been singled out for special (negative) treatment so it's reasonable to assume that every savingstream investor has been similarly short-changed on the interest for those loan parts held before 1st March and sold during March. 
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Apr 8, 2015 12:16:22 GMT
On some of my loans the dashboard figures are higher than actual interest received. They are small amounts.
One was bought and sold in the same month, so only 1 payment which is not the same as the dashboard, so I can't be missing anything.
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paulg
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Post by paulg on Apr 8, 2015 12:25:02 GMT
On some of my loans the dashboard figures are higher than actual interest received. They are small amounts. One was bought and sold in the same month, so only 1 payment which is not the same as the dashboard, so I can't be missing anything. Liz, savingstream offered us this explanation, but it doesn't explain the inconsistencies. "The reason for this discrepancy is because on the dashboard the loan part interest calculation takes into account the current day or the last day of ownership of a sold loan part. When interest is calculated to be credited it does not include the day on which the loan part is sold in the calculation. We appreciate this is confusing for investors and we will be working on changing this to make things clearer."
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Apr 8, 2015 14:35:10 GMT
On some of my loans the dashboard figures are higher than actual interest received. They are small amounts. One was bought and sold in the same month, so only 1 payment which is not the same as the dashboard, so I can't be missing anything. Liz, savingstream offered us this explanation, but it doesn't explain the inconsistencies. "The reason for this discrepancy is because on the dashboard the loan part interest calculation takes into account the current day or the last day of ownership of a sold loan part. When interest is calculated to be credited it does not include the day on which the loan part is sold in the calculation. We appreciate this is confusing for investors and we will be working on changing this to make things clearer." Still doesn't explain why the dashboard figures differs from the actual figure received.
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ramblin rose
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Post by ramblin rose on Apr 8, 2015 15:13:46 GMT
On some of my loans the dashboard figures are higher than actual interest received. They are small amounts. One was bought and sold in the same month, so only 1 payment which is not the same as the dashboard, so I can't be missing anything. Liz, savingstream offered us this explanation, but it doesn't explain the inconsistencies. "The reason for this discrepancy is because on the dashboard the loan part interest calculation takes into account the current day or the last day of ownership of a sold loan part. When interest is calculated to be credited it does not include the day on which the loan part is sold in the calculation. We appreciate this is confusing for investors and we will be working on changing this to make things clearer." My issue with this is that the dashboard figures are always correct for me; they start and show as zero on the day loan parts are purchased, they increase by 1 day's amount every midnight, and the amount is transferred correctly to the selling/sold list at the time the part is put up for sale. It's the payment that is then sometimes a day short. In my cases, there have been loan parts bought one month and sold in another and some pay correctly and some don't, thus leading to the potential timing issues I referred to above, and which SS said had a bearing, but without explaining how. I am heartened that they have told ilmoro they are doing something about it, as I am getting fed up of having to check things every month.
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I must get out more! 
