manue
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Post by manue on Mar 22, 2015 22:56:50 GMT
Well the time has come, after much pondering.. after days of reading the comments and posts on this site not to mention trying to educate myself on the second hand aircraft industry (that I still don't fully understand) registering and depositing cash I still have great deal of apprehension in making my first investment on this platform.
It must be the fear of making and risking my cash on something I don't fully understand, my mind say's don't get involved in stuff you don't understand, the other side of my brain say's these guys are professional with loads of experience and a depth of knowledge in an industry that has earned them the right arrive at this point offering the likes of me the same opportunities afforded to underwriters and institutional investors.
Now some may say I'm just getting suckered in swayed by the offerings of 11/12% interest secured on an sexy asset that I can't physically see feel or touch, on the other hand I am consoled by the fact that since the banks have made such a bad job of looking after their customers it's maybe time to trust this peer to peer platform, it seems to have an open honest and transparent business ethic, this does gives me confidence to invest my cash in the assets that they are bringing to market for lenders to invest in.. hopefully for years to come.
So am I going to make that investment..? Am I going to commit..? I want to.. but I don't know if I'm thinking rationally, I am an investor in other asset based platforms, I didn't have the same apprehensions as I do in this one, though I do like the business platform... so why am I hesitating!!
Would anyone like to enlighten me before I make my decision, one way or the other..
Regards,
manue.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 22, 2015 23:58:32 GMT
Well the time has come, after much pondering.. after days of reading the comments and posts on this site not to mention trying to educate myself on the second hand aircraft industry (that I still don't fully understand) registering and depositing cash I still have great deal of apprehension in making my first investment on this platform.
It must be the fear of making and risking my cash on something I don't fully understand, my mind say's don't get involved in stuff you don't understand, the other side of my brain say's these guys are professional with loads of experience and a depth of knowledge in an industry that has earned them the right arrive at this point offering the likes of me the same opportunities afforded to underwriters and institutional investors.
Now some may say I'm just getting suckered in swayed by the offerings of 11/12% interest secured on an sexy asset that I can't physically see feel or touch, on the other hand I am consoled by the fact that since the banks have made such a bad job of looking after their customers it's maybe time to trust this peer to peer platform, it seems to have an open honest and transparent business ethic, this does gives me confidence to invest my cash in the assets that they are bringing to market for lenders to invest in.. hopefully for years to come.
So am I going to make that investment..? Am I going to commit..? I want to.. but I don't know if I'm thinking rationally, I am an investor in other asset based platforms, I didn't have the same apprehensions as I do in this one, though I do like the business platform... so why am I hesitating!!
Would anyone like to enlighten me before I make my decision, one way or the other..
Regards,
manue. Been lending with them from the start. So Id say <insert strap line of trainer company named after Greek goddess of victory TM 
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duck
Member of DD Central
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Post by duck on Mar 23, 2015 7:40:24 GMT
There is an old adage in Sales that when a customer buys something and likes it he tells his friends "Look what I bought" .... and if he doesn't like it "Look what I was sold". I'm firmly in the former camp.
Initially I did my research and then dipped my toe in and then sat back. Satisfied that my initial feelings were not misplaced I have continued to build and currently my intention is to continue and to accelerate the process.
The decision has to be yours @manue I'm not a salesman and have nothing to sell to you, all I have is my experience ......
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Post by ablrate on Mar 23, 2015 10:03:12 GMT
Well the time has come, after much pondering.. after days of reading the comments and posts on this site not to mention trying to educate myself on the second hand aircraft industry (that I still don't fully understand) registering and depositing cash I still have great deal of apprehension in making my first investment on this platform.
It must be the fear of making and risking my cash on something I don't fully understand, my mind say's don't get involved in stuff you don't understand, the other side of my brain say's these guys are professional with loads of experience and a depth of knowledge in an industry that has earned them the right arrive at this point offering the likes of me the same opportunities afforded to underwriters and institutional investors.
Now some may say I'm just getting suckered in swayed by the offerings of 11/12% interest secured on an sexy asset that I can't physically see feel or touch, on the other hand I am consoled by the fact that since the banks have made such a bad job of looking after their customers it's maybe time to trust this peer to peer platform, it seems to have an open honest and transparent business ethic, this does gives me confidence to invest my cash in the assets that they are bringing to market for lenders to invest in.. hopefully for years to come.
So am I going to make that investment..? Am I going to commit..? I want to.. but I don't know if I'm thinking rationally, I am an investor in other asset based platforms, I didn't have the same apprehensions as I do in this one, though I do like the business platform... so why am I hesitating!!
Would anyone like to enlighten me before I make my decision, one way or the other..
Regards,
manue. Hi Manue, and thanks for considering Ablrate From our perspective I can only say that you need to be fully aware of all the risk in the transaction and fully comfortable with what you are investing in. No one is going to be an expert overnight but we hope to bring all our investors along on the journey with us. To that end, we are in the process of doing a small white paper that explains more about the aircraft market in relation to all of the segments of the aviation value chain. So you might want to hold off until you have read that which may give you more insight to make a decision. It will be out by the end of this week. Again, thanks for considering us. Regards Ablrate
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Investor
Member of DD Central
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Post by Investor on Mar 23, 2015 10:44:43 GMT
Manue
Found myself in a similar situation with this platform 6 months ago. Not an asset class I have had much exposure to historically and found it difficult to fully get my thoughts around exactly what and where the risks lie. Like you I had a lot of reading to do however I was also fortunate in being able to spend a couple of hours with the CEO of Ablrate, both to get a perspective of the business and to feedback my impressions of the site and the p2p industry in general. Certainly in my case the chance to 'see the whites of their eyes', and get a feel for the business goals and ethos of the team made my decision a lot easier.
Ablrate currently are a relatively small part of my portfolio however this is down to deal flow and not my risk perception. I would anticipate that as deal flow increases it will form a significantly larger percentage of my overall portfolio in the p2p market. However I would confess to being in the top quartile when completing a personal risk profile and as such the Ablrate and Saving Stream models fit better for me than the Ratesetter/Zopa models.
**in an group therapy voice** "My name is Investor, and I am an Ablrate customer"
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manue
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Post by manue on Mar 23, 2015 12:30:59 GMT
Thanks guys, I'm glad I'm not the only one who had the same problem getting my head round this particular form of asset but after writing my post it sort of helped as I got it out of my brain into word form that I could share.
From the three responses from il moro, duck and Investor you seem to like this platform a lot together with its potential so I'm going to join you in this investment journey with my feet firmly on terra firma my head still in the clouds hoping I don't have a crash landing from my flight of fancy, hoping that our journey with Ablate will be a mutually smooth one.
I'll look forward Ablrate to reading this white paper with an incite into to the vagaries of the aircraft value business.
Until then.. my name is manue.. and I am to a customer of Ablrate.
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Post by ablrate on Mar 23, 2015 13:09:23 GMT
Thanks guys, I'm glad I'm not the only one who had the same problem getting my head round this particular form of asset but after writing my post it sort of helped as I got it out of my brain into word form that I could share.
From the three responses from il moro, duck and Investor you seem to like this platform a lot together with its potential so I'm going to join you in this investment journey with my feet firmly on terra firma my head still in the clouds hoping I don't have a crash landing from my flight of fancy, hoping that our journey with Ablate will be a mutually smooth one.
I'll look forward Ablrate to reading this white paper with an incite into to the vagaries of the aircraft value business.
Until then.. my name is manue.. and I am to a customer of Ablrate. Welcome manue... Ablrate
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manue
Posts: 25
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Post by manue on Mar 27, 2015 20:11:27 GMT
Well the time has come, after much pondering.. after days of reading the comments and posts on this site not to mention trying to educate myself on the second hand aircraft industry (that I still don't fully understand) registering and depositing cash I still have great deal of apprehension in making my first investment on this platform.
It must be the fear of making and risking my cash on something I don't fully understand, my mind say's don't get involved in stuff you don't understand, the other side of my brain say's these guys are professional with loads of experience and a depth of knowledge in an industry that has earned them the right arrive at this point offering the likes of me the same opportunities afforded to underwriters and institutional investors.
Now some may say I'm just getting suckered in swayed by the offerings of 11/12% interest secured on an sexy asset that I can't physically see feel or touch, on the other hand I am consoled by the fact that since the banks have made such a bad job of looking after their customers it's maybe time to trust this peer to peer platform, it seems to have an open honest and transparent business ethic, this does gives me confidence to invest my cash in the assets that they are bringing to market for lenders to invest in.. hopefully for years to come.
So am I going to make that investment..? Am I going to commit..? I want to.. but I don't know if I'm thinking rationally, I am an investor in other asset based platforms, I didn't have the same apprehensions as I do in this one, though I do like the business platform... so why am I hesitating!!
Would anyone like to enlighten me before I make my decision, one way or the other..
Regards,
manue. Hi Manue, and thanks for considering Ablrate From our perspective I can only say that you need to be fully aware of all the risk in the transaction and fully comfortable with what you are investing in. No one is going to be an expert overnight but we hope to bring all our investors along on the journey with us. To that end, we are in the process of doing a small white paper that explains more about the aircraft market in relation to all of the segments of the aviation value chain. So you might want to hold off until you have read that which may give you more insight to make a decision. It will be out by the end of this week. Again, thanks for considering us. Regards Ablrate Hi Andy, any sign of this white paper you said was coming out this week? I'm very interested in reading about how the second hand aircraft industry works.
On another matter can you also explain to me and maybe others on this forum how all your company parts are entwined with each other, the relationship between Phoenix Aircraft Capitol Corporation based in Gran Cayman Islands and Phoenix Aircraft Leasing based in Singapore and Albrate based in London, its confusingly difficult for me to understand where my investment/security is held.
Can you show me in chart form how the circle is squared.
Should I be worried if one part of the jigsaw goes bust who looks after the lenders interests.
Regards,
manue.
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Post by ablrateandy on Mar 27, 2015 20:48:37 GMT
That was actually the boss wading in  . I believe that he finished what he was doing but I have to admit to having sneaked out early today and so I am not sure!! I will PM you our email addresses now and hopefully David will come back to you on your points asap (and probably post them here!). Andy |
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gc
Member of DD Central
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Likes: 141
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Post by gc on Mar 28, 2015 14:26:07 GMT
Hi Andy, any sign of this white paper you said was coming out this week? I'm very interested in reading about how the second hand aircraft industry works.
On another matter can you also explain to me and maybe others on this forum how all your company parts are entwined with each other, the relationship between Phoenix Aircraft Capitol Corporation based in Gran Cayman Islands and Phoenix Aircraft Leasing based in Singapore and Albrate based in London, its confusingly difficult for me to understand where my investment/security is held.
Can you show me in chart form how the circle is squared.
Should I be worried if one part of the jigsaw goes bust who looks after the lenders interests.
Regards,
manue.
Good question there manue. It would be good to know how they are all entwined and how serious a threat it poses if one were to go down, AND where/how one's investment is held. Probably find more people will invest if it is explained out simply. In my experience, when things are complicated, it is either because i'm struggling to understand it due to my thick head (mostly the scenario) or it is purposely being made complicated for a reason.
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Post by ablrateandy on Mar 28, 2015 15:33:33 GMT
That's a very fair point and I will address it first thing on Monday with David to make sure that we give a clear picture of how things are held. There can be some slight differences (largely due to how the aircraft is held before the Ablrate financing) but we have a very clear SPV system that means basically that any (or all) party can fall away with no loss to investor rights. We'll put it to the front of the "to-do" list |
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Post by ablrate on Mar 30, 2015 9:08:10 GMT
Hi Guys
Will have the whitepaper available later today and will post a structure... few meetings this morning and some news to get out.
Regards
Ablrate
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Post by ablrate on Mar 30, 2015 15:48:37 GMT
Hi
The white paper is just getting some sanity checks for compliance, but ref the structure:
The structure of our business is that Aviation and Tech Capital Ltd owns Ablrate. Ablrate Assets Limited is the security agent with powers to appoint third party agents (lawyers etc) to handle defaults. Phoenix Aircraft Leasing Pte Ltd is an Aircraft leasing Agent which originates current transactions (we are opening up to more if required). The owners of Phoenix are also shareholders in ATC.
All other companies that you may have seen are special purpose companies that are formed to hold a specific aircraft asset which are ring fenced from the other businesses. While the current SPC system is fine we have a large pipeline of business to do so we are working with the leasing agent to change the formation of such 'SPCs' into a simple structure which can just be repeated for each transaction by the same set of lawyers with the same security procedures in place for each, administered by the same administrators (This saves time and legal fees.)
If the platform fails, the lessors will carry on administering the loans, with no charges to lenders.
If a lessee fails in the first instance the lessor will step in and either continue paying the loan while they repossess the asset and restructure the lease, or they will repossess on the basis of our default procedures.
If the lessor fails, Ablrate Assets will administer the lease.
If all the businesses fail, the aircraft is still in the ownership of the SPC and a trustee to administer the repossession and sale will be appointed.
Regards
Ablrate
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 23:57:16 GMT
For what it's worth, I'd tend to err on the side of caution. You should ask yourself why it is that you're considering doing something you feel you don't entirely understand.
If you're chasing yield, why is it that your former sources of inflation-busting returns are no longer performing so well?
If someone deliberately manipulated something to bring about that performance reduction, ask yourself what they expect you to do in response, and whether your interests and theirs are aligned before doing what they want you to do.
This isn't investment advice! The best thing you could do right now may well turn out to be
- buy some dollars
- buy some Greek treasuries
- buy some FTSE stocks
- buy some UK real estate
and
- put the house on p2p finance
On the other hand the bubble might burst before you have time to get out!
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james
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Post by james on Apr 1, 2015 4:05:53 GMT
Thanks for that initial structure discussion. Would you mind no describing all potential conflicts of interest involved in the relationships between the various companies, their owners and us as lenders?
For example, it is my impression that the founder of the leasing business has helped to arrange to set up Ablrate in part to provide e funding for the aircraft leasing business and hence there is a conflict of interest there between founder's interests and lender's interests. Such conflits of interest aren't inherently problematic provided they are disclosed and understood by all parties. In this case one of the potential effects is a difference in objectives for interest rats, with the leasing firm wanting lower rates to reduce costs while the lenders would want higher rates to increase their profits. meanwhile ablrate itself could have an interest in either increasing or decreasing rates depending on the dominant revenue sources and whether that favours more lending via initial fees or less lending at higher rates based on a cut of lender revenue.
I also assume that the ownership between the leasing business and Ablrate is similar, that the interests of the leasing business and Ablrate might be considered to be well aligned, with any ownership mismatch being by those who do not have a controlling interest in the Ablrate businesses. In turn this may mean that the leasing business owners may have an incentive to send funding requests via ablrate, both as a potentially lowest cost source of funding and to develop the Ablrate business so that it may in the future provide more of their funding needs.
So, as part of such disclosures, it would be very useful and appropriate to know the names of each director and their directorship or management roles in the other related businesses, as well as their ownership percentage in each of these businesses, so that there is transparency of ownership and interest.
Naturally enough I don't consider anything I know of the structure today to be problematic and am happy to invest with what I know, but I do have a strong interest in full disclosure so that nobody gets surprised later. As with politics, I don't think the interests are a problem, but do think that not being open about them could be one.
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. I believe that he finished what he was doing but I have to admit to having sneaked out early today and so I am not sure!! I will PM you our email addresses now and hopefully David will come back to you on your points asap (and probably post them here!). 