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Post by fundingsecure on May 5, 2015 16:35:46 GMT
In advance of the actual auction some points may help to clarify the position: Choice of Auction House We use a large number of different auction houses, to enable us to ensure the best chance of selling "specialist" items. As evidenced here the sale of Australian Indigenous art is a particular area that AdamPartridge specialise in. There has already been a significant exposure for this reason. Video feed of the auction is transmitted globally, with bids placed by phone and internet, as well as in person. This ensures the widest possible audience Auction Initial Estimates. The auction house uses initial estimates to try and generate interest. This does not mean these are expected selling prices, nor that they would necessarily be sold at these levels The minimum selling price relates to the reserve price, which is NOT made public. Inclusion of Images The auction house decides whether to use some / all of images provided. We take their guidance as "no image" can sometimes increase interest at the time of the auction. Spelling With Australian indigenous art the spelling of the artist's name can vary, as it is a phonetic translation from the original. The details on the auction site match the inscriptions on the paintings - see attached example. In some cases artists have since decided to "standardise" the spelling of the translation - but the auction house uses the actual contemporary inscription. Provenance All of the paintings were listed in the original purchase receipt (1990) and included in the "Tjukurrpa"/"Dreamtime Collection" catalogue, both of which were provided to FundingSecure at the time the loan was taken out. Sale As with any auction the price realised can be very unpredictable. Our aim is to ensure that any assets sold at auction will receive the highest possible exposure and, therefore, result in a successful sale. In the event that items do not sell at auction we then have the option to either re-list in another suitable sale or to offer to private buyers. FundingSecure |
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ramblin rose
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Post by ramblin rose on May 6, 2015 6:31:02 GMT
Thanks for surfacing in this thread fundingsecure - your input provides much needed clarity at this crucial time and will clearly help to prevent lenders getting carried away with pessimism. I think we'll all be watching this one carefully and making future decisions accordingly. |
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Post by mrclondon on May 6, 2015 10:39:23 GMT
Earlier today images for the remaining 6 paintings have been added to the online catalogue. It must have been the earlier loan that had a different collection of aboriginal art that contained one painting I would have liked to own myself. Thanks for the detailed response fundingsecure, however I can't help but think that in the 21st century auctions need to be geared towards the needs of online bidders to take account of the worldwide availability of potential bidders, not just those that live within a couple of hours drive of Macclesfield. The inclusion of images of art work is IMO, a necessity, as is the use of the standardised spellings of artists names to allow automated search routines for a particular artist to be triggered. As ramblin rose has said, lenders will be watching this rare example of visibilitity of the disposal of defaulted loan assets carefully, and hopefully taking away some useful learning along the way.
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coop
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Post by coop on May 6, 2015 11:42:32 GMT
Yes but auction houses are full of old fuddy duddies, and perhaps a little set in their own ways!
I've yet to see a "bricks and mortar" auction house website I thought was well designed or particularly well fit for purpose; and although it may seem confusing and poorly laid out to an outsider (and it is) those "in the know" within the fine art/auctionhouse community or whatever you want to call it seem happy enough and the AHs aren't going out of business...
Also bear in mind a very well catalogued and sensibly priced item will put a lot of dealers right off; they sense that they won't be getting a bargain. These are people who spend hours a day trawling these sites for little gems here and there; and if they find something slightly miscatalogued or otherwise difficult to find it could pique their interest considerably.
It's pretty much all smoke, mirrors and a big fat slice of commish!!!
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on May 6, 2015 15:57:50 GMT
These are people who spend hours a day trawling these sites for little gems here and there; and if they find something slightly miscatalogued or otherwise difficult to find it could pique their interest considerably. I've done similar on eBay, searching for mis-described items -- such as cartridges for a Canon printer where the seller has used "Cannon" instead of the correct spelling. My experience suggests that such mistakes generally are bad news for the seller because there are fewer potential buyers aware of the auction, and the final sale price tends to be low -- or ridiculously low. That's great for me when I'm buying, but not in a case such as this when I'm a seller. And while both eBay and mainstream auction houses depend on the sales commission for their income, the amounts at stake are very different. So while it's uneconomic for eBay to try to prevent such mistakes, the incentive is very different for auction houses and the people who sell through them. Unfortunately, FS are not the seller here. They're just the agent, so perhaps they don't have the same incentive to get it perfect that other sellers do.
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coop
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Post by coop on May 8, 2015 8:27:59 GMT
Auction today! I'm not even in on this loan but I'm excited about it  EDIT: 2 Hours 50 mins in and they've made it to lot 255. Only another 795 to go then  |
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coop
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Post by coop on May 8, 2015 15:45:06 GMT
Lot 635 now.
Lots of money changing hands for moldy looking old golf balls.
Surely it doesn't go on until 10 or 11?
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sqh
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Post by sqh on May 8, 2015 16:06:06 GMT
Lot 635 now. Lots of money changing hands for moldy looking old golf balls. Surely it doesn't go on until 10 or 11? Still a fair way to go then. 
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hendragon
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Post by hendragon on May 8, 2015 19:00:19 GMT
I made the total £1880. Rather less than the value placed on the paintings initially. I rather think that FS should not use the person who made the intial valuation ever again.
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coop
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Post by coop on May 8, 2015 19:01:32 GMT
£1880 before commission.
My condolences.
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sqh
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Post by sqh on May 8, 2015 19:06:30 GMT
How Stupid, having an internet auction of Australian Art at 4:45am on a Saturday morning Sydney Time.
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hendragon
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Post by hendragon on May 8, 2015 19:07:46 GMT
why on earth would the borrower repay a loan like this? They managed to get a loan that was 3 times the value of the security. If items sell for less than their estimated value so be it, but 1/6 of their estimated value? FS you need to look very hard at what has happened here.
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Post by mrclondon on May 8, 2015 19:13:24 GMT
Ouch  £1880 vs £6000 loan (69% loss, or £103 loss for each £150 loan part) I didn't see a single internet bid on any of the 8 lots. My link of a few days ago shows the price achieved for each lot. NOT A HAPPY BUNNY.
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Post by mrclondon on May 8, 2015 19:30:31 GMT
In advance of the actual auction some points may help to clarify the position: [...] Auction Initial Estimates. The auction house uses initial estimates to try and generate interest. This does not mean these are expected selling prices, nor that they would necessarily be sold at these levels The minimum selling price relates to the reserve price, which is NOT made public. [...] FundingSecure - having watched the auction live, I don't understand the point you were trying to make here. You imply the estimated prices are set to generate interest, and from that I drew the inference (obviously wrongly) that the reserve price would be higher than published estimates, yet some items sold for less than the lower estimate, and most for the lower estimate. EDIT: Surely you have a responsibility to both the borrower and lenders to achieve the highest possible price for pawn items being disposed of. That to me suggests that for a FIRST attempt at disposal of assets the reserve price should be somewhere between the original LTV and 100% of the valuation. Anything less is to my mind is failing in your duty of care, unless you are simultaneously able to bring forward a claim of negligence against the original valuer.
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ramblin rose
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Post by ramblin rose on May 9, 2015 6:15:52 GMT
In advance of the actual auction some points may help to clarify the position: [...] Auction Initial Estimates. The auction house uses initial estimates to try and generate interest. This does not mean these are expected selling prices, nor that they would necessarily be sold at these levels The minimum selling price relates to the reserve price, which is NOT made public. [...] FundingSecure - having watched the auction live, I don't understand the point you were trying to make here. You imply the estimated prices are set to generate interest, and from that I drew the inference (obviously wrongly) that the reserve price would be higher than published estimates, yet some items sold for less than the lower estimate, and most for the lower estimate. EDIT: Surely you have a responsibility to both the borrower and lenders to achieve the highest possible price for pawn items being disposed of. That to me suggests that for a FIRST attempt at disposal of assets the reserve price should be somewhere between the original LTV and 100% of the valuation. Anything less is to my mind is failing in your duty of care, unless you are simultaneously able to bring forward a claim of negligence against the original valuer. I too drew the inference that the reserve prices had been set higher. I'm the first to accept that losses are inevitable, but this level shocks even me. I hope, at least, that more people will now wake up to the risks they are running here while they pile in and accept lower and lower rates. It will at some point end in tears for the unwary if they do not also pay attention to the advice from FS to diversify across many loans to limit the risks. Thankfully, max bidding limits imposed by FS have saved lenders from large actual losses on this one as no lender was able to lend more than £150. It gives me pause for thought. When the risk premium on loans was constantly higher here I tended to lend across almost all loans. Now that those higher rates are available on reducing numbers of loans, my personal risk is concentrating more than it used to. I now need to decide whether it's worth it - I'm less sure about that today than I was yesterday. Whichever way you choose to look at it, this could be damaging for FS.
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