sl75
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Post by sl75 on Apr 24, 2015 12:51:50 GMT
Given the following information: Interest (With Provision Account payments of £-A.AA) | £B.BB | Cashback | £C.CC | Retained Tax | £D.DD | Total | £E.EE |
... and an online tax return form that gives you two boxes, one for the GROSS amount of interest from which tax has NOT been deducted, and the other for the NET amount of interest from which tax HAS been deducted. Why would anyone other than a "tax expert" think they were doing anything wrong by putting the £E.EE amount into the box for the net amount of interest from which tax HAS been deducted? Surely AC need to break out this information onto two tables, one showing the calculation for interest paid to you gross without any deduction of tax (to be entered into the box on the form for gross interest), and the other showing the interest paid to you net (to be entered into the box on the form for net interest). Otherwise, when someone fills in their tax return in the most immediately "obvious" way (copying £E.EE into the field for interest where tax has already been deducted), HMRC's systems will calculate the tax incorrectly, on the assumption that tax was retained on the FULL amount, and the person will then underpay their tax by a large amount. Indeed, given this format of information, it doesn't seem clear exactly which amounts would we expect to put into each of the two boxes, and how would we arrive at this information? Are we supposed to multiply the retained tax by 4 (to approximate the net interest figure) and subtract this from the total? ... or look up the individual statement entries for the loan in question to get the exact amount to put in the first box? ... or something else?
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Apr 24, 2015 15:07:20 GMT
The fact that the Cashback is listed separately implies that it should be treated differently from interest. Would anyone care to say what they are doing with the Cashback number?
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Post by Duane Dibley on Apr 24, 2015 23:41:25 GMT
The fact that the Cashback is listed separately implies that it should be treated differently from interest. Would anyone care to say what they are doing with the Cashback number? These days you get cashback from all sorts of things, from credit and debit cards, websites like Quidco to mortgage applications. When I was a lad you got sixpence for taking empty pop bottles back to the shop. Never heard of anyone paying tax on it. When there's a box on my tax return for filling in my clubcard points that's the time when I'll start paying tax on my cashback. Until HMRC come out and say for definite whether or not cashback payments are subject to income tax then I'll interpret the rules as I see fit errrr ..... your honour.
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david42
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Post by david42 on Apr 25, 2015 7:50:30 GMT
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skippyonspeed
Some people think I'm a little bit crazy, but I know my mind's not hazy
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Post by skippyonspeed on Apr 26, 2015 12:25:07 GMT
Whilst the statement shows interest accrued during the year, only part may have actually been credited to the account during the tax year in question. So, does the uncredited amount have to be included on the tax return of that year, or the following year (assuming that's when you get it)?
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Apr 26, 2015 14:56:53 GMT
Whilst the statement shows interest accrued during the year, only part may have actually been credited to the account during the tax year in question. So, does the uncredited amount have to be included on the tax return of that year, or the following year (assuming that's when you get it)? AFAIK the statement includes only interest credited to your account during the tax year. If you pay tax on a 'cash' basis, which most individuals do, that's the amount that's subject to tax. Interest shown as accrued on the Dashboard or on your list of loans hasn't been paid yet -- and might not be, such as that shown as accrued for the SCP&M loan (#146). You'll be subject to tax when -- and if -- you actually receive it. Usual disclaimer applies: I am not an expert. I am not qualified to give advice. I may be talking rubbish.
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skippyonspeed
Some people think I'm a little bit crazy, but I know my mind's not hazy
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Post by skippyonspeed on Apr 26, 2015 16:01:23 GMT
Perhaps the tax statement should say "interest credited" rather "interest earned" to avoid confusion
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shimself
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Post by shimself on May 1, 2015 18:59:40 GMT
Given the following information: Interest (With Provision Account payments of £-A.AA) | £B.BB | Cashback
| £C.CC | Retained Tax | £D.DD | Total | £E.EE |
Is EE not zero? There was this temporary flap when they thought they would have to deduct tax, until somebody at HMRC with sufficient clout said to ignore the law and do what he or she said (ie not deduct it). I suspect this might concern just one repayment from one borrower which started the flap. But yes I agree with you they should show the amount from which tax was deducted separately from the Paid Gross amounts.
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on May 5, 2015 10:38:25 GMT
Is EE not zero? There was this temporary flap when they thought they would have to deduct tax, until somebody at HMRC with sufficient clout said to ignore the law and do what he or she said (ie not deduct it). I suspect this might concern just one repayment from one borrower which started the flap. E.EE is the total, and is certainly not zero. D.DD (Retained Tax) is indeed very small (relating to one or possibly two payments from a single borrower), however, the fact remains that the annual statement shows a non-zero amount of tax being retained. Indeed, it seems to me that even the existence of this line (and even if D.DD were zero), and the name of the page "Tax Statement", could easily lead to individuals inferring that Assetz Capital are responsible for calculating and deducting tax, just like banks do, so I'm a little surprised that AC's tax advisor(s) approved the "tax statement" in its current form. Given that there was a recent announcement that a certain amount of interest would be tax-free (about which a large proportion of the population would be unlikely to remember the PRECISE details), the fact that the amount isn't even close to 20% of the gross interest wouldn't necessarily clue them in that something was amiss either... I'd tend to think AC's duty of care extends a bit beyond giving some numbers and expecting people to calculate the correct numbers to report to HMRC for themselves. However, as before, even those who ARE clued in do not have the (in most cases probably only a few pence worth of) interest that has tax retained properly separated so they can enter the appropriate amounts in each box of the tax return. I also note on further inspection that the "tax statement" (presumably falsely) claims on hover-over that HMRC have received a payment that is not even a whole number of pence. I'm pretty sure that the fractional pence exist only on AC's own systems.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on May 5, 2015 12:48:47 GMT
Yes DD sorry my typo I think what happened was that the accountant for one borrower found a (valid) legal reason why they should retain tax and pay net. So they did just that. This sent everyone into a tailspin until some head honcho at HMRC said not to (because it would not only be damaging to p2b in general, it would be a nightmare and probably illegal to administer as every borrower would have to collect details for all their lenders, which AC cannot lawfully disclose). So it was I think just one single payment to a subsection of AC lenders The relevant thread is p2pindependentforum.com/thread/1807/withholding-tax
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Post by maxeys on May 18, 2015 19:42:10 GMT
Is anyone else's Tax Statement STILL incorrect? I assume the FCA and HMRC have been consulted on the issues that are still present i.e. Not showing all income (UW fees and interest uplifts). Does anyone know if this is considered a breach?
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