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Post by yorkshireman on Apr 28, 2015 23:37:06 GMT
The problem is that nowhere near enough tax and NI was ever collected from current retirees and baby boomers to provide for their current level of state pension and public sector DB pension payments. I paid 44 years NI contributions, whereas now you need 30 qualifying years of National Insurance contributions or credits to get the full basic State Pension: www.gov.uk/state-pension/eligibilityIn other words, I and no doubt millions of others, paid a substantial amount for sweet FA, therefore as far as I’m concerned we’ve paid our share. And where has all my money gone?
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Post by yorkshireman on Apr 28, 2015 23:40:46 GMT
The pensions that are enjoyed today were paid for by the tax and NI contributions of 45 to 50 years. They weren't though were they. The tax and NI contributions were spent. That’s not the fault of the boomer generation, blame the politicians of all hues for spending it and if Little Ted and Nutty Nicola gain power then Gordon Brown will look positively stingy.
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Post by norfolkblue on Apr 29, 2015 7:26:49 GMT
It's hard to compare generations because conditions were so different.
As somebody in their early 30's , I guess I belong to neither, but I can see both points of view. The older generation may have had better pensions, cheaper house prices (relative to income) and free education, but then there were far fewer university places, fewer provisions during unemployment, and getting a mortgage was extremely difficult.
The youngsters graduating this decade face hefty 5 figure student debts at commercial interest rates, house prices many times their income, and generally poor private/public pension schemes. However, they'll always be protected from poverty meaning the risk of taking a chance (whether that be starting a business, buying a house or moving around the country) is far lower, and access to University and mortgage finance is almost a given should one accept the fees.
Tricky to compare.
What I would agree with though, is that the young generation (and the successive ones to follow) have been somewhat let down by politicians in recent decades. All 3 parties shoulder some of the blame here (even when in opposition , they should hold the govt to account) , but I principally blame Labour because they were in power 13 years with a strong majority , and could have built a lot more social housing (or made the building of private houses easier) instead of spending the money on tax credits (which was basically a political strategy to bring more people into being clients of the state).
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Post by norfolkblue on Apr 29, 2015 7:29:43 GMT
They weren't though were they. The tax and NI contributions were spent. That’s not the fault of the boomer generation, blame the politicians of all hues for spending it and if Little Ted and Nutty Nicola gain power then Gordon Brown will look positively stingy. Agreed, I'd rather have a Conservative led government either way, but if it has to be Ed Milliband, I really hope he needs Clegg to moderate him , rather than Sturgeon to pull him even further to the extreme left.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 7:30:12 GMT
Today's pensions are paid for out of today's taxation. (there is no secret bucket where the money was hidden) Inflation varies by class of source and capital. Poor education within the UK, non-aspirational for the last 40 years has not done the country any favours, the present boom is being enhanced by a significant flood of well educated, hard working, well brought up Eastern Europeans (thank goodness). The only thing the Labour party did right under TB was to let them in. The affect of this group on the UK educated cohort has been to make them raise their game, hence we now have services that work, unlike 40 years ago when power stations, railways, motorways, (gosh I used to buy steel then and British Steel never knew when it would be able to deliver within 6 weeks.....), do you remember how bad coffee was etc etc it was all a disaster (if Mrs T hadn't come along I'd have left the country following half of my many siblings). Labour this time around looks bonking but the Conservatives are trying to look like (mad as a box of frogs) UKIP lite and that leaves people with no one to vote for. Is it too much to ask for a government to protect the realm, keep its citizens safe and keep financial rules simple and consistent? ??
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Post by ranjeb on Apr 29, 2015 7:41:53 GMT
I need to add it's not just London that has had silly house price rises.
What annoy's me is the spin they put on policies e.g. the IHT cap rise which is announced like it will benefit everyone, and the politicians pretence to be a 'normal' person e.g. DC has recently been caught out pretending to support Aston Villa.
You can't argue with the fact that though that until more young people register to vote, policies will be aimed at the elderly. I didn't register personally as there are pros and cons to me for whatever party wins.
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Post by norfolkblue on Apr 29, 2015 8:05:29 GMT
I need to add it's not just London that has had silly house price rises. What annoy's me is the spin they put on policies e.g. the IHT cap rise which is announced like it will benefit everyone, and the politicians pretence to be a 'normal' person e.g. DC has recently been caught out pretending to support Aston Villa. You can't argue with the fact that though that until more young people register to vote, policies will be aimed at the elderly. I didn't register personally as there are pros and cons to me for whatever party wins. You are highlighting the weakness of democracy, which I think is very relevant to us. Democracy is a far superior to any known alternative, for as long as the people are interested and participate in it. If only a subset of the population participate, their interests will naturally take priority over others, and usually to the direct disadvantage to those who don't take part. The problem is that once democracy raises living standards and rights for its people, which it invariably does, people start to become complacent. Once people like yourself relinquish their right to vote (for which I believe there is no acceptable excuse) or pay little attention to the process, politicians game the system, until it's disadvantages start to erode at its advantages.
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coop
Member of DD Central
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Post by coop on Apr 29, 2015 10:58:57 GMT
I'm still waiting for the day they stop extracting surplus value from my labour! Also for those of you looking for a way to "move forward together" or some other such bollox; it doesn't exist. It's us against them and it has been since time immemorial. And don't vote! It only encourages them.
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Post by batchoy on Apr 29, 2015 12:51:40 GMT
I need to add it's not just London that has had silly house price rises. What annoy's me is the spin they put on policies e.g. the IHT cap rise which is announced like it will benefit everyone, and the politicians pretence to be a 'normal' person e.g. DC has recently been caught out pretending to support Aston Villa. You can't argue with the fact that though that until more young people register to vote, policies will be aimed at the elderly. I didn't register personally as there are pros and cons to me for whatever party wins. You are highlighting the weakness of democracy, which I think is very relevant to us. Democracy is a far superior to any known alternative, for as long as the people are interested and participate in it. If only a subset of the population participate, their interests will naturally take priority over others, and usually to the direct disadvantage to those who don't take part. The problem is that once democracy raises living standards and rights for its people, which it invariably does, people start to become complacent. Once people like yourself relinquish their right to vote (for which I believe there is no acceptable excuse) or pay little attention to the process, politicians game the system, until it's disadvantages start to erode at its advantages. I'm not sure that Democracy if far superior to any known alternative, I seem to recall that a few years back researchers found that a benign dictatorship was actually the most superior whilst it lasted.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 13:12:44 GMT
Evidence?
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Investor
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Post by Investor on Apr 29, 2015 13:27:02 GMT
You are highlighting the weakness of democracy, which I think is very relevant to us. Democracy is a far superior to any known alternative, for as long as the people are interested and participate in it. If only a subset of the population participate, their interests will naturally take priority over others, and usually to the direct disadvantage to those who don't take part. The problem is that once democracy raises living standards and rights for its people, which it invariably does, people start to become complacent. Once people like yourself relinquish their right to vote (for which I believe there is no acceptable excuse) or pay little attention to the process, politicians game the system, until it's disadvantages start to erode at its advantages. I'm not sure that Democracy if far superior to any known alternative, I seem to recall that a few years back researchers found that a benign dictatorship was actually the most superior whilst it lasted. Confused, can anyone explain the difference, I thought our version of democracy was simply a benign dictatorship with the lead dictator being rotated every 5 years based on their media profile at the time.
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Post by batchoy on Apr 29, 2015 13:31:15 GMT
The basic argument goes that without the involvement of politics, the benevolent dictator makes decisions based on what is best for the country and the people long term, they are not burdened by the fact that they are always looking to the situation at the next election nor are there the costly step changes you get when you switch from one political party to another, examples of this in the UK are the NHS and Education system.
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Post by batchoy on Apr 29, 2015 13:40:06 GMT
I'm not sure that Democracy if far superior to any known alternative, I seem to recall that a few years back researchers found that a benign dictatorship was actually the most superior whilst it lasted. Confused, can anyone explain the difference, I thought our version of democracy was simply a benign dictatorship with the lead dictator being rotated every 5 years based on their media profile at the time. There is no predetermined end date to a dictatorship, nor is there an opposition to stall the dictators plans.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 14:31:21 GMT
The basic argument goes that without the involvement of politics, the benevolent dictator makes decisions based on what is best for the country and the people long term, they are not burdened by the fact that they are always looking to the situation at the next election nor are there the costly step changes you get when you switch from one political party to another, examples of this in the UK are the NHS and Education system. Not sure that is evidence , certainly no evidence that either organisation thinks long term or even is capable of thought.
Have read Utopia if that is any help, do you have a paper link?
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Post by closetotheedge on Apr 29, 2015 15:07:48 GMT
Anybody getting worried by the prospect of Labour?
Yes, from a financial perspective as I have some savings so will be seen as the enemy.
Yes, from a patriotic perspective as EM comes across as such a berk it makes me cringe to think of him representing the UK. At least DC has the air of a leader about him.
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