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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jan 22, 2016 12:18:03 GMT
Problem is the fine / fuzzy line between symbiosis and parasitism. If I want a ticket to concert X for £50 and can't go, is it OK if Joe goes and buys one for me and charges me £5 extra for his time? I'd say yes. If he buys a spare, and flogs it on ebay, as we into parasitic strategy yet? If he buys =all the damn tickets= to sell on ebay, we are definitely into touting territory, but that'll only work if there are (enough) people willing to re-buy them for a higher price. Underwriting share issues, or buying commodity futures have similar grey areas .. OK if a backdrop to real commercial activity, but attempting to 'corner the market' generally gets dealt with in some regulatory fashion. Even cornering the market for your own actual use is going to attract unwanted attention .. e.g. the rules on how much of a company you can hoover up under the covers.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jan 22, 2016 13:10:22 GMT
Problem is the fine / fuzzy line between symbiosis and parasitism. If I want a ticket to concert X for £50 and can't go, is it OK if Joe goes and buys one for me and charges me £5 extra for his time? I'd say yes. If he buys a spare, and flogs it on ebay, as we into parasitic strategy yet? If he buys =all the damn tickets= to sell on ebay, we are definitely into touting territory, but that'll only work if there are (enough) people willing to re-buy them for a higher price. When all sales have to be at par, the problem is significantly reduced, as there's no profit to be made by cornering the market and then reselling. So there shouldn't really be an issue at SS. FS, OTOH, do allow sales at a premium, and a loan released yesterday is a good example of what happens. All available parts were taken up in a matter of seconds, and today there are parts for sale at a premium -- and selling. Like GSV3MIaC's ticket example above, the seller is providing a service to those who couldn't be poised at their computer the instant the loan was made available, so perhaps the small premium is a reasonable price for the service provided. But if the seller bought a huge chunk of the loan and effectively stopped other investors who were poised at their computers at the appropriate time from getting a look in then that's a different situation and IMHO more of a problem for the P2P platform.
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wysiati
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Post by wysiati on Jan 22, 2016 19:22:50 GMT
The convenience proposition/service argument does not necessarily apply and is a weak justification for anyone hoovering up perhaps hundreds or thousands of times the amount they would have in a loan if they genuinely wanted , say 0.5% or 1% maximum ongoing exposure per loan. If the block bidders do not take almost all of loan offering (knowing that there are enough who will behave like captive customers) then much of the untouched capacity in the loan would have gone, at no premium, to those who otherwise would be the flippers' customers paying a premium (hence the transfer of value issue). I think the notion that any of us overbidding on auctions with a view to immediate/near-term resale at a premium is somehow doing the purchaser a favour is a bit rich - it is the profit motive at play.
mikes1531 makes the key point that the lack of resale premia removes incentives on SS. I can see many regarding the SS model as preferable in that the best returns are within reach of those who are actually assuming the ongoing default/loan loss risks rather than those engaing largely or exclusively in short term trading.
On SS you still have the issue of being able to build a diversified portfolio on-platform within a reasonable time-frame and many of us are having to accept more concentrated and correlated exposures in the short-to-medium term if capital deployment targets are to be met. Hence you still get strong opinions around the issue of having a more level playing field for secondary market access, as this remains more important for portfolio building than on some other platforms while lenders wait for the (hopefully) continuing progress in the pipeline.
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Jan 30, 2016 15:34:34 GMT
Pbl28 has been repaid (I think, the email isn't 100% clear).
Another loan safely through SS.
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sam i am
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Post by sam i am on Feb 1, 2016 14:18:12 GMT
I know I've been banging on a bit about PBL031 so this will be my last post (for now) about it. But it does raise some wider questions which are more important. Assuming the latest update and the site are correct, the end of this loan is the same as when it started even though savingstream said there was a six month extension. The only conclusion I can draw (as suggested by adrianc ) is that the original loan was not 12 months but 6 months. This means that we thought 12 months of interest had been paid at outset but it hadn't. Only 6 months. This means that holders of the loan were more exposed that maybe they thought. Having said that, this particular loan was probably still on the old T&C so we were lending to Lendy rather than the borrower. (Although now the loan has extended, what T&Cs apply? I would guess the new ones but maybe the old contract terms were just extended.) How many other loans are in this position that we are completely unaware of? Maybe my conclusions are wide of the mark. If so, I invite savingstream to set the record straight. But this leaves a few questions. Most of the loans are launched with a notional 12 month term. I know that this type of loan isn't fixed and that it may be repaid early or extended. But what savingstream does know is the amount of interest that is deducted from the loan at outset. For me this defines the term of the loan. After this point, if interest is not paid, the loan is technically in default (even if it hasn't been declared and proceedings have not started). At this point strain is then placed on the LTV as it then has to start supporting unpaid interest as well as the capital repayment. This is of even greater interest to lenders now with new loans being on a true P2P basis and not lending to Lendy. As a lender I want to be clear about the following information: 1. To which date has interest been paid 2. If a loan has been extended what is the new date to which interest has been paid 3. Which T&Cs apply to each loan Firstly, all loans on the platform should show the remaining term to be the term up to which interest has been paid. Secondly, I find it ridiculous that many loans on the platform show negative term. This makes it look like they are in default. But as far as I am aware they are not because further interest has been paid to extend the term. Some of this information can be gleaned to some extent from the updates but it really should be shown clearly on the website. The remaining term should be updated to reflect the new date up to which interest has now been paid. Thirdly, why does the new website not show which T&Cs apply to which loans? Surely lenders have a right to know the contract under which they are lending money. savingstream , all I want is some clarity as to the position with each loan. I'm not requesting any changes to the terms of business. Is that too much to ask? OK - first an apology on two counts. One for quoting my own post and secondly for going on about this again when I said I wouldn't. As far as I'm concerned the issue with PBL031 was never satisfactorily resolved because savingstream never confirmed nor denied whether interest on this loan has originally been paid just for 6 months even though we were clearly told it was a 12 month loan at outset. It very much appears that this was the case. I wondered if there were any other loans in a similar position. Well it looks like we have another candidate: PBL046 (farm near Glasgow) The platform currently shows this loan with 173 days remaining. But the latest update says "We will extend this loan by a further 3 months once the client pays us the interest owed. Expecting receipt next week." It looks suspiciously like this loan also had interest paid for 6 months even though the website clearly says "This is a 12 month loan." savingstream , you really must come clean with your loans. Don't tell us they are 12 month loans when in fact they are 6 months with an option to extend. I repeat my request above. Please set the remaining term to reflect the date to which interest has been paid. Edit: Tim at Saving Stream has confirmed to me directly that this loan was initially for 6 months and has been extended for a further 6 months. I have replied to him with my suggestions above and have asked for his comments.
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jamesc
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Post by jamesc on Feb 12, 2016 11:27:38 GMT
PBL21 has just repaid was not expecting that !!!
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Feb 12, 2016 15:37:08 GMT
PBL21 has just repaid was not expecting that !!! Indeed there has been no e-mail, but that being said I didn’t have anything invested in it so those who did may of got an e-mail. No surprise though; SS February e-mail indicated that a sale was scheduled to exchange at any point. It wasn't a big loan, so shouldn't have little impact on on the SM (thank god! )
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Feb 12, 2016 15:59:29 GMT
PBL21 has just repaid was not expecting that !!! Indeed there has been no e-mail, but that being said I didn’t have anything invested in it so those who did may of got an e-mail. No surprise though; SS February e-mail indicated that a sale was scheduled to exchange at any point. It wasn't a big loan, so shouldn't have little impact on on the SM (thank god! ) On the contrary, dear dude, there was an email, which I received today at 11:30, despite the fact that I have had nothing in this loan for several months . Attachments:
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Feb 12, 2016 17:59:16 GMT
Indeed there has been no e-mail, but that being said I didn’t have anything invested in it so those who did may of got an e-mail. No surprise though; SS February e-mail indicated that a sale was scheduled to exchange at any point. It wasn't a big loan, so shouldn't have little impact on on the SM (thank god! ) On the contrary, dear dude, there was an email, which I received today at 11:30, despite the fact that I have had nothing in this loan for several months . How weird; I have two SS accounts (business & personal) and didn't receive an email on either account Maybe I've been put on SS blacklist
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alanp
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Post by alanp on Feb 12, 2016 18:00:42 GMT
I was in it and got mine at 16:23 so guess they are trickling out.
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Feb 16, 2016 7:59:53 GMT
ilmoro: What do the graphs at the bottom of the original post show?
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Feb 16, 2016 9:54:33 GMT
ilmoro: What do the graphs at the bottom of the original post show? They show the variation in the length of loans, in both percentage & days, to the original stated term ie early repayment or overruns. Relates to a thread last year regarding how long money would be tied up in an illiquid market or something. Just tacked them on and update periodically
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paulg
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Post by paulg on Feb 16, 2016 11:35:34 GMT
ilmoro: You have PBL076 as drawndown 15-2-2016 but the website is showing it as not drawndown.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Feb 16, 2016 22:11:06 GMT
ilmoro : You have PBL076 as drawndown 15-2-2016 but the website is showing it as not drawndown. Thanks. I appear to be imagining drawdowns. Swear that it said yes when I looked. Hadnt added the links to the loans either for some reason
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spyrogyra
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Post by spyrogyra on Feb 22, 2016 11:53:24 GMT
SS update from 01/02/16:
PBL031 - Garth Isaf Farm, Ponyclun. The borrower has renewed this loan – all interest and fees have been paid for a further 6 months.
But the website shows only 59 days remaining.
I'm sorry for asking to clarify, this might have been discussed previously, but a short answer would be appreciated.
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