paulg
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Post by paulg on May 28, 2015 21:53:28 GMT
I have the the shortfall too. I sent a message this afternoon to savingstream awaiting a reply. Is this a one off/manual error or something more systematic? Well good luck with that one! It may be a manual error but it's certainly not a one off. My wife's March interest had 17 payments similarly one day short. She sent 7 emails to SS and got 2 replies, neither of which answered any of the points / questions raised. It seems the more proof you send them that there is an error - the less likely you are to get a reply. The last response after her sixth email was: "You do not earn interest for the day on which you sell a loan part, this interest belong to the new buyer. So when you subtract one date from another in Excel you need to subtract another 1 to give you the number of days for which you earn/have been paid interest for."
So according to that - if you buy a loan part today and sell it tomorrow you don't get any interest - and we all know that isn't true. We came to the conclusion that as the March errors most probably applied to a great many other investors as well as her SS were determined not to see it. The alternative - that they didn't understand - was too disturbing to contemplate, given that they have so much money entrusted to them. Anyway, shortly after that they got another interest payment similarly 1 day wrong in the opposite direction which balanced out our losses, so we gave up chasing it.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on May 28, 2015 21:57:00 GMT
I have the the shortfall too. I sent a message this afternoon to savingstream awaiting a reply. Is this a one off/manual error or something more systematic? Me too. Not necessarily a shortfall. PBL34 calculated interest the same way. 21-26 - 6days. Assuming interest accumulates at midnight, the last day doesnt count, but the first day does even though its potentially only part of a day as loans tend to launch in the afternoon. This does seem to be a change from previously eg PBL23, 13 which paid interest inclusive of the repayment day. Wasnt there a system upgrade recently, perhaps it was tweaked then. Could even be more accurate, calculating by the hour (then rounding).
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Post by biggles on May 28, 2015 22:30:27 GMT
I have the the shortfall too. I sent a message this afternoon to savingstream awaiting a reply. Is this a one off/manual error or something more systematic? The last response after her sixth email was: "You do not earn interest for the day on which you sell a loan part, this interest belong to the new buyer. So when you subtract one date from another in Excel you need to subtract another 1 to give you the number of days for which you earn/have been paid interest for."
So according to that - if you buy a loan part today and sell it tomorrow you don't get any interest - and we all know that isn't true. Well no, the new buyer (you) gets interest on the first day AIUI. So that makes sense.
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paulg
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Post by paulg on May 28, 2015 22:57:32 GMT
The last response after her sixth email was: "You do not earn interest for the day on which you sell a loan part, this interest belong to the new buyer. So when you subtract one date from another in Excel you need to subtract another 1 to give you the number of days for which you earn/have been paid interest for."
So according to that - if you buy a loan part today and sell it tomorrow you don't get any interest - and we all know that isn't true. Well no, the new buyer (you) gets interest on the first day AIUI. So that makes sense. So if I subtract today's date from tomorrow's and then subtract another 1, that equals zero for a loan part held for 1 day. That may make sense to you but it doesn't to me.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on May 29, 2015 0:37:06 GMT
Couple of points. SS calculate loan duration in 2 different ways depending on where you look. Repaid loans from main loan page doesnt include 1st or last day in figure given for loan calculation eg PL34 21/5-27/5 lasted 5 days, in the repaid loan section of your loans it includes first day so 6 days & that is what my accrued interest is based on. The former I guess is what they quoted paulg though this is clearly wrong. Theyve counted the days and deducted 1 to remove the start day, if you subtract you dont deduct (PBL35 has accrued interest for Thu so clearly shows for the given example you would earn 1 days interest if you bought & sold on consecutive days) There are discrepancies between Excel calculations & interest recorded as paid in the loans list. Clearly the interest reported in the transactions list is a rounded 2dp figures whereas actually interest is paid at more dps eg I have a discrepancy on PBL8 between the Excel calculation and what was actually paid according to my repaid loans Excel £9.02, Repaid loans £9.04 (which is the correct amount). PBL1 Excel £5.36, repaid loans £5.33, PBL2 Excel £3.02 repaid loans £2.99 PBL3 Excel £5.89, repaid loans £5.85. Some loans PBL23 match. In each case the figure on the repaid loans is correct when calculated across the life of the loan So based on this I would say the total interest earnt is correct even though it looks wrong when viewed based on 1 month payment in isolation
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paulg
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Post by paulg on May 29, 2015 12:03:47 GMT
Couple of points. SS calculate loan duration in 2 different ways depending on where you look. Repaid loans from main loan page doesnt include 1st or last day in figure given for loan calculation eg PL34 21/5-27/5 lasted 5 days, in the repaid loan section of your loans it includes first day so 6 days & that is what my accrued interest is based on. I've noticed that anomaly on the sold loans page too. It follows that the stated figure of total interest paid to investors is wrong, ie. the £2,288.22 represents 5 days interest but they actually paid out 6 days. But the figure is only ever going to be an approximation because it's clearly derived from the loan value times loan duration rather than being a summation of actual interest paid, and not all of the loan will have been earning interest on every day. But most of the errors in actual interest paid seem to arise from the way the start date is chosen for the last interest installment of a loan part. As an illustration of how is should work (and normally does work) we had a loan part bought on 27 Jan and sold on 2 Feb, so loan period = 6 days. The interest paid for January was for 4 days - 27 to 31 Jan, and the interest paid for February was for 2 days - 31 Jan to 2 Feb. This demonstrates that interest is not paid for the last day of the month, just as it wouldn't be paid for the day a loan part is sold. An error occurs if - when calculating the final interest installment - instead of taking the last day of the previous month as the the start date they take the first day of the final month as the start date. If that had happened in the above example then the interest for February would only have been 1 day, and the total interest 1 day short. That's what appears to have happened to all the March final interest installment payments, and would appear to be the problem with the PBL008 payments. We have found that the "Loan Part Detail" page for each loan part always gives an accurate statement of loan duration and total interest earned, both during the life of a loan part and after it has been sold or repaid, so that's the easiest way to check on dubious interest payments.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on May 29, 2015 12:31:01 GMT
Couple of points. SS calculate loan duration in 2 different ways depending on where you look. Repaid loans from main loan page doesnt include 1st or last day in figure given for loan calculation eg PL34 21/5-27/5 lasted 5 days, in the repaid loan section of your loans it includes first day so 6 days & that is what my accrued interest is based on. I've noticed that anomaly on the sold loans page too. It follows that the stated figure of total interest paid to investors is wrong, ie. the £2,288.22 represents 5 days interest but they actually paid out 6 days. But the figure is only ever going to be an approximation because it's clearly derived from the loan value times loan duration rather than being a summation of actual interest paid, and not all of the loan will have been earning interest on every day. But most of the errors in actual interest paid seem to arise from the way the start date is chosen for the last interest installment of a loan part. As an illustration of how is should work (and normally does work) we had a loan part bought on 27 Jan and sold on 2 Feb, so loan period = 6 days. The interest paid for January was for 4 days - 27 to 31 Jan, and the interest paid for February was for 2 days - 31 Jan to 2 Feb. This demonstrates that interest is not paid for the last day of the month, just as it wouldn't be paid for the day a loan part is sold. An error occurs if - when calculating the final interest installment - instead of taking the last day of the previous month as the the start date they take the first day of the final month as the start date. If that had happened in the above example then the interest for February would only have been 1 day, and the total interest 1 day short. That's what appears to have happened to all the March final interest installment payments, and would appear to be the problem with the PBL008 payments. We have found that the "Loan Part Detail" page for each loan part always gives an accurate statement of loan duration and total interest earned, both during the life of a loan part and after it has been sold or repaid, so that's the easiest way to check on dubious interest payments. Hmm, I see what your saying. However,Loan Part Detail page for PBL08 gives me £9.04 which is the correct amount. However, the monthly loan amounts add up £9.02, so the question us how much have we actually received. I suspect that across an entire portfolio the individual disrepencies balance themselves out but its certainly extremely unclear and needs clarification.
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paulg
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Post by paulg on May 29, 2015 13:11:00 GMT
I would put that difference between £9.04 and £9.02 down to rounding down of individual monthly payments. I'm not in a position to analyse the PBL008 payments as I wasn't in that loan at the end, but if other investors are saying they're 1 day short and their Loan Part Detail pages confirm it, then I would look at how the end of month / start of month dates were implemented. It wouldn't actually make a difference if SS included the last day of the month in the normal monthly interest payments and then use the first day of the month to start the following month's interest calculation, just as long as they are consistent, but unfortunately that's not always the case.
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mike
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Post by mike on May 29, 2015 13:44:51 GMT
My concern is putting rounding issues ect aside that the interest earned per SS does not equal the interest paid. How can the system be kept in check when these two don't match?
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Mar 11, 2016 0:05:17 GMT
Tagging on to this old thread (very old; boy this loan is dragging on....) instead of starting a new one. I'm just updating my DD excel sheet and can't see a Valuation document for this loan on the SS website (PBL 36). There is a link, but it leads to nowhere.
This was before my time; was there ever a valuation document, or has it recently gone AWOL?
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Mar 11, 2016 7:22:09 GMT
Tagging on to this old thread (very old; boy this loan is dragging on....) instead of starting a new one. I'm just updating my DD excel sheet and can't see a Valuation document for this loan on the SS website (PBL 36). There is a link, but it leads to nowhere. This was before my time; was there ever a valuation document, or has it recently gone AWOL? Even newer to the site than you, but I can see a valuation document on PBL008 (in the "repaid loans" section), if that's any good to you.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Mar 11, 2016 9:34:06 GMT
Tagging on to this old thread (very old; boy this loan is dragging on....) instead of starting a new one. I'm just updating my DD excel sheet and can't see a Valuation document for this loan on the SS website (PBL 36). There is a link, but it leads to nowhere. This was before my time; was there ever a valuation document, or has it recently gone AWOL? Even newer to the site than you, but I can see a valuation document on PBL008 (in the "repaid loans" section), if that's any good to you. Thanks; but I did find that. I'm just guessing that a new valuation report was issued for PBL 36 considering that the value of the security went from £650,000 to £450,000.........
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Mar 11, 2016 9:52:03 GMT
Thanks; but I did find that. I'm just guessing that a new valuation report was issued for PBL 36 considering that the value of the security went from £650,000 to £450,000......... You need to commission a third party surveyor to deduct the value of the 2 sold flats from the value of the entire property including all the flats, and figure out the value of what's left? Edit: Hmmm... having located the flats on a house price search, it would seem that the value got inflated from the figure I'd suggested above, as the flats sold for a total of £225k, leaving only £425k of residual value by a purely maths-based approach.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Mar 11, 2016 11:38:11 GMT
someone presumably just ran the Halifax (sorry 'Hbos') house price index over the numbers to get a later value.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Mar 11, 2016 22:47:32 GMT
Thanks; but I did find that. I'm just guessing that a new valuation report was issued for PBL 36 considering that the value of the security went from £650,000 to £450,000......... You need to commission a third party surveyor to deduct the value of the 2 sold flats from the value of the entire property including all the flats, and figure out the value of what's left? Edit: Hmmm... having located the flats on a house price search, it would seem that the value got inflated from the figure I'd suggested above, as the flats sold for a total of £225k, leaving only £425k of residual value by a purely maths-based approach. Thanks; That does seem to explain the valuation; would still like to see an updated valuation report; just a tad strange there is a link for a valuation report that leads to nowhere.... The shops have been for sale on Rightmove recently for £395,000. Removed now, so I wonder if it sold?
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