james
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Post by james on Jul 12, 2015 20:48:53 GMT
Bondora's year 2014 annual report showed a loss of €1.2 million on a turnover of €1.45 million (link to their forum, you nned an account to read it). Press coverage here, with Google Translate to English here. Payroll costs increased 6.2 times to €632k and employee count to 32 from 12 in 2013. Average wage per employee doubled. Bondora raised €4.3 million in capital. They will try to increase revenue by at least three times in 2015 but without new markets. Which will be a relief to investors, who suffered badly every time they entered a new market. Since I'm mainly interested in whether Bondora will survive long enough for my loans to run off it appears that around 2-3 years may be funded at the current cash burn rate but if costs continue to increase that could drop to 1-2 years.
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JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
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Post by JamesFrance on Jul 13, 2015 10:45:55 GMT
Yes, I am afraid that a mad dash for growth is the priority and the quality of their loans and investor choice has suffered badly in the last year.
Some regulation would help but there is not much sign of that actually happening.
There seems to be an inexhaustible supply of new lenders who ignore previous experiences and dive blindly in after reading the headline figures.
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jay
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Post by jay on Jul 17, 2015 11:48:24 GMT
Well at least as long there's new lenders ,the platform might live till my few good loans are repaid . No doubt they will expand even more and flood it with poor quality loans there's no reasons to think otherwise. As for diving blindly, I discovered the site by reading the economist, and some blog especially wiseclerk one convinced me to do so.Sounded serious company and a good idea , they have a fair share of responsability in this disaster and lured me to my demise....5000 euros invested 800 interest gained but 1500+ and growing default with no progress on recovery at all even if they do seems to make more calls to the debtors.
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Post by teralek on Jul 21, 2015 20:59:33 GMT
I am one of these new lenders...
Just put 1000€ there... I guess it was good I didn't go crazy... Any recommendations?
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james
Posts: 2,205
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Post by james on Jul 21, 2015 23:10:17 GMT
Some recommendations on using Bondora:
1. Don't believe what Bondora says about underwriting practices. This is based on: 1a. lending to only "young professionals" who were under 25 that in reality was to tellers, fitters and others with low grade jobs and low education who were not anywhere close to being young professionals. 1b. lending from April 2014 to December 2014 that was supposed to be varying interest rate with risk but with only a few exceptions it lent to anyone in Estonia at 15%. 1c. "verified income and expenses" that seems to have in at least some cases meant "nothing really verified much at all", like the old woman receiving child benefit payments with lots of existing loans who had borrowed a huge amount of money from many places.
2. If you choose to use the lending profile system sell loans that you get in Slovakia (if it ever returns), Spain and perhaps Finland as soon as you get them and keep the ones from Estonia. Maybe make a few exceptions, but this is likely to serve you well. But maybe better not to use the automated lending at all.
3. Read what people here have to say and what wiseclerk and those who post on the related site say. There is lots of good information about how to pick the loans that are likely to do better.
4. Consider whether the risk-adjusted returns at Bondora are really worth having. They use a benchmark interest rate that includes secured lending but do no secured lending and there are better options for secured lending available if you don't mind using non-Eurozone UK places. 12% secured on physical things is available from some places like MoneyThing and Ablrate. As a UK-based lender i've no reason to use Bondora now becasue I can get better deals in the GBP zone.
5. If you sell loans at a discount on the secondary market leave the offers live only: 5a. From 1900 Friday to 0100 Monday Estonian time or 5b. Between 1900 and 0100 Estonian time. 5c. Sunday is the lowest risk time. This is because if a payment is made you will often find that the loan is bought at the discount even though the discount is no longer a correct price for the state of the loan. The times I have given are those when there are few payments made and even fewer for loans that are late. One person checked and found that about half of discounted loan sales happened just after a payment was made, before the price could be changed. Don't be one of the victims, the times I give have greatly reduced the number of times when I have been a victim of this.
6. Don't hesitate to sell a loan that appears likely to default. Some people have tax advantages, like being able to deduct default capital from their income for tax purposes. Let them take the risk and benefit from their better tax position that makes defaulted loans more valuable to them.
7. Remember that Bondora is not your friend. Their business objectives like growth do not coincide with yours, like high and reliable investment returns. This does not mean that Bondora is your enemy, just not friend.
8. Don't. For about two years Bondora was a great place to be investing but it is no longer anywhere close to being as good as it was during that time.
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Post by teralek on Jul 22, 2015 13:34:08 GMT
Thank you for such good advice!
I am actually thinking of withdrawing part of my funds while they are not yet invested.
I am doing the Conservative portfolio manager... but I think I will do it manually while I can. I can't seem to find a way to see the country of the borrower after the loan is approved?! I can only guess by the name in the loan agreement... Is there a way to see this after the loan is approved and financed?
I have a Euro account and the interest rate is so low that I decided to try this. Doesn't seem to be a good Euro P2P lending.
I am thinking of using Zopa for my UK account.
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JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
Posts: 1,323
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Post by JamesFrance on Jul 22, 2015 14:07:17 GMT
I can't seem to find a way to see the country of the borrower after the loan is approved?! I can only guess by the name in the loan agreement... Is there a way to see this after the loan is approved and financed? If you look at one of your loans, you will see that beside APPLICATION the reason for the loan is shown in blue which is a link to the original loan application. There you can see the country of the borrower which they don't want to be easily found, but there would be an uproar if they removed it completely. If you use the PM you will not get many Spanish loans unless you go for D and higher ratings, however interest rates are low for ABC. Unfortunately there are now very few Estonian loans available for manual investment as the PMs run first, which is a recent change.
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Post by teralek on Jul 22, 2015 14:45:39 GMT
If you use the PM you will not get many Spanish loans unless you go for D and higher ratings, however interest rates are low for ABC. Unfortunately there are now very few Estonian loans available for manual investment as the PMs run first, which is a recent change. Alright! Thanks!! Yes interest rates are lower for ABC but they are still WAY higher than money just sitting in the bank!
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jay
Posts: 46
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Post by jay on Jul 22, 2015 17:16:33 GMT
Keep in mind ABC does not mean they will repay , i have a fair share of ABC in late payment , and 200 euros on a C loan 60+ day default (home own estonian). Also those were loans i took last year, theres no guarantee today estonian loans are as good . In overall , from my experience money sitting int he bank would have been a better idea than coming here....So yes you were right to not go crazy.
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