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Post by pepperpot on Jul 18, 2015 17:17:20 GMT
" When the loan is suspended all existing manual investment targets will be removed" worries me a lot. <snip> <snip> At the beginning of that period all lender manual investments will be frozen, so the system will not buy or sell anything upon the reopening of the market. During those three days lenders will be able to review their targets and tell the system if they want to invest more or sell some or all of their holdings in that loan. After the three days trading will commence for all those lenders who have updated their targets.That seems fine, thanks for clarifying, it might just be the language used that's confusing people (inc me), would the above be better as; "When the loan is suspended all existing manual investment targets will be disabled" ...trading will commence for all those lenders who have re-enabled their updated targets
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Post by chris on Jul 18, 2015 17:24:20 GMT
<snip> At the beginning of that period all lender manual investments will be frozen, so the system will not buy or sell anything upon the reopening of the market. During those three days lenders will be able to review their targets and tell the system if they want to invest more or sell some or all of their holdings in that loan. After the three days trading will commence for all those lenders who have updated their targets.That seems fine, thanks for clarifying, it might just be the language used that's confusing people (inc me), would the above be better as; "When the loan is suspended all existing manual investment targets will be disabled" ...trading will commence for all those lenders who have re-enabled their updated targets Yes, that describes it perfectly.
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Post by jevans4949 on Jul 18, 2015 18:18:28 GMT
chris: Your original phrase, that targets would be removed, did not make sense in the context of the present MLIA model. If you have a holding, or want a holding, you have to have a target, which is either zero or non-zero. At present, using the disable flag is the only way to stop loan parts being bought or sold. If the capital value of the loan reduces, either because it is an amortising loan or there is a one-off partial repayment, the value of your holding falls below the target, and the buying 'bot will leap into action to buy up any loan parts on the market. This was why I suggested setting the disable flag - unless there is a good reason to use something else, but I can't see why. The fact that the 'bot does the actual buying and selling in accordance with the target makes the word Manual in the title of the account a bit misleading, IMHO.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jul 19, 2015 1:52:09 GMT
The fact that the 'bot does the actual buying and selling in accordance with the target makes the word Manual in the title of the account a bit misleading, IMHO. You manually select which loans you want to hold/buy/sell thats where the Manual comes from as opposed to the GEIA (and other accounts when they materialise) which automatically allocates funds to a range of loans without user input. Dont really understand why there is any debate on this. The only way to ensure that there is no interference with lenders instructions and less active lenders arent disadvantaged by a credit event is to suspend & disable. However, there may need to be an exception where the lender had already set an instruction to sell, in which case it shouldnt be disabled as they would actually be disadvantaged by the disablement preventing them from selling the loan at the point when there may be demand. Bo****cks, Ive just started a debate, havent I 
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 9:04:13 GMT
"When the loan is suspended all existing manual investment targets will be removed" worries me a lot. All seems like a lot of effort to manage a problem that might go away if the borrowers were managed more affectively. Something like "a better way to shut the stable door after the horse had bolted". So we will now have a better way to un-target assets after we lost control of the borrowers. Still not really clear what happens to my target 3 days after the lender is warned of a problem, or does it just happen out of the blue as far as the lender is concerned? Is the targer cancelled, put on pending or what? May be a flow diagram from the lender's point of view might help..... Have a great weekend  I think it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that all loans could be managed without ever having a credit event worthy of lender intervention. Our main goal is to minimise the chance that someone who happens to get earlier access to information than someone else has opportunity to get a jump on the market. Not all lenders have equal opportunity to trade at all times of the day nor want to invest the same amount of time micromanaging their portfolio. On top of that there will always be someone with a quicker finger, such as investment accounts or API based trading once we allow it. Therefore a period of suspension where information can be circulated, questions can be asked and answered, and decisions taken before the market opens again seems sensible to me. At the beginning of that period all lender manual investments will be frozen, so the system will not buy or sell anything upon the reopening of the market. During those three days lenders will be able to review their targets and tell the system if they want to invest more or sell some or all of their holdings in that loan. After the three days trading will commence for all those lenders who have updated their targets. Thanks Chris, I think we need to push at the our understandings of what is proposed to try and help structure the results so that they both satisfy the lender and AC. For me this debate has confirmed to me two things 1) I will make minor changes today to my targets to move away from the higher interest rates ones 2) that the Executive board are being led by a Plant and you lack an influential Completer Finisher. In the short term that is ok, but if I were an Investor I'd be a tad worried, always tricky in a rapidly growing business but.... Have a great weekend
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jul 21, 2015 18:00:40 GMT
A new message from AH: ... Any loan where the credit event gives rise to a known or an elevated risk of a potential loss will remain completely suspended for the time being. ... Andrew Holgate, MD I have no problem with the whole proposal in general, but the sentence quoted above makes me wonder how much difference the proposed changes actually will make. How many loans will have -- or have had -- a credit event that didn't mean an elevated risk of potential loss? If those remain suspended then ISTM that's no different from the current procedure. And how many loans have had a credit event that's subsequently been corrected and have remained suspended? There may have been some, but I can't think of any. If there aren't any then, again, the new policy will be no different from the old one. What am I missing?
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Post by mrclondon on Jul 21, 2015 19:20:27 GMT
A new message from AH: ... Any loan where the credit event gives rise to a known or an elevated risk of a potential loss will remain completely suspended for the time being. ... Andrew Holgate, MD I have no problem with the whole proposal in general, but the sentence quoted above makes me wonder how much difference the proposed changes actually will make. How many loans will have -- or have had -- a credit event that didn't mean an elevated risk of potential loss? If those remain suspended then ISTM that's no different from the current procedure. And how many loans have had a credit event that's subsequently been corrected and have remained suspended? There may have been some, but I can't think of any. If there aren't any then, again, the new policy will be no different from the old one. What am I missing? The only thing you are missing is there are a few loans which are suspended but based on current info have mimimal risk of loss, e.g. Hackney for sure, and possibly some of Leeds, Wood**** , CC, Central London BL, Aberystwyth. And if an interest payment was missed Spondon also. The categorisation of "elevated risk of potential loss" I would apply at present to Kent, Ipswich, Epping, Optical, G**, ET, Plumbers, and possibly Anglesey & Essex.
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Post by chris on Jul 21, 2015 21:37:42 GMT
Hackney was just used as an example on an internal call of a loan that should be tradable under these new guidelines. The primary objective is to make sure lenders who are not sat at their desks 24x7 reading the forum and scanning the site are not disadvantaged by the release of information that causes others to sell loan units that their existing settings buy, so that those who do buy into loans make informed decisions to do so. As a general rule of thumb the workflow will be to pause trading for a few days to allow lenders to review their targets before opening up the market again wherever it is sensible to do so.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jul 22, 2015 3:00:37 GMT
How many loans will have -- or have had -- a credit event that didn't mean an elevated risk of potential loss? What am I missing? The only thing you are missing is there are a few loans which are suspended but based on current info have mimimal risk of loss, e.g. Hackney for sure, and possibly some of Leeds, Wood**** , CC, Central London BL, Aberystwyth. And if an interest payment was missed Spondon also. The categorisation of "elevated risk of potential loss" I would apply at present to Kent, Ipswich, Epping, Optical, G**, ET, Plumbers, and possibly Anglesey & Essex. : Thanks for the list. I have to agree about there being minimal risk with Hackney at the moment, and possibly CLBL. I'm not so convinced about Leeds, Wood**** , CC, and Aberystwyth, inasmuch as those borrowers really do seem to be struggling. But as long as the relevant info is out in the open there's probably no need to stop trading in those loans. Having said that though, I'd be a seller of those despite having a reasonable tolerance of risk, and I'd welcome the opportunity to reduce my exposure! So IMHO the only buyers of those would be lenders with an extremely high risk tolerance or lenders who are blinded by the high interest rates and don't perceive the risks that I do. I wouldn't want to be in AC's position, making the judgement calls about which of their non-performing loans have minimal risk and which don't.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jul 22, 2015 6:14:05 GMT
...I wouldn't want to be in AC's position, making the judgement calls about which of their non-performing loans have minimal risk and which don't. Indeed. I don't think they realistically can, because the cutoff is always going to be subjective/arbitrary, and liable to second-guessing after the event. It would be safer for AC (and better for lenders, if implemented properly) if all impaired loans were made tradeable.
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iren
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Post by iren on Jul 22, 2015 16:22:51 GMT
That seems fine, thanks for clarifying, it might just be the language used that's confusing people (inc me), would the above be better as; "When the loan is suspended all existing manual investment targets will be disabled" ...trading will commence for all those lenders who have re-enabled their updated targets Yes, that describes it perfectly. The proposed mechanism for pausing investment is exactly what I suggested in the Aberystwyth Hotel thread on 30 April, so obviously I'm pleased with it. I still wonder whether it would have been applied in a case like Aberystwyth at the point that accounts received showed a deterioration in profitability but technically left the business meeting loan covenants. A flurry of selling took place at this point, before the borrower stated later that he was unable to maintain full payments.
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ramblin rose
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Post by ramblin rose on Jul 24, 2015 11:48:31 GMT
OK, so my Manual Investments into loan #152 have been disabled as per the new system, but aren't I supposed to be able to exercise my right to re-enable it chris? I can't, and I want to. (Yes, I know, as my mother used to tell me with regular monotony (and I am horrified to discover I now tell my nieces despite my generally benevolent and subversive aunt persona) "I want, doesn't get!". But it's not an unreasonable want.) Edit: Well that was a quick fix Edit2: A bit further playing with this (it's a setting I've never used before) shows that this was actually probably user error on my part. I was trying to slide the button because it looked to me like a slider thing such as you get on iPad settings, but that does nothing at all. Only clicking it brings up the confirmation message so you can then make the change. Fair enough, but I'd say I'm fairly computer savvy, so might others be confused by this? Typically, I expect to click buttons, and slide sliders. |
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Post by oldnick on Jul 24, 2015 12:37:58 GMT
OK, so my Manual Investments into loan #152 have been disabled as per the new system, but aren't I supposed to be able to exercise my right to re-enable it chris? I can't, and I want to. (Yes, I know, as my mother used to tell me with regular monotony (and I am horrified to discover I now tell my nieces despite my generally benevolent and subversive aunt persona) "I want, doesn't get!". But it's not an unreasonable want.) Edit: Well that was a quick fix Edit2: A bit further playing with this (it's a setting I've never used before) shows that this was actually probably user error on my part. I was trying to slide the button because it looked to me like a slider thing such as you get on iPad settings, but that does nothing at all. Only clicking it brings up the confirmation message so you can then make the change. Fair enough, but I'd say I'm fairly computer savvy, so might others be confused by this? Typically, I expect to click buttons, and slide sliders. Or even better - a bakelite (spell checker had no idea what that word was) knob on a nice wooden facia. BBC home service... Ahh. 
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Jul 24, 2015 12:50:39 GMT
Hackney was just used as an example on an internal call of a loan that should be tradable under these new guidelines. The primary objective is to make sure lenders who are not sat at their desks 24x7 reading the forum and scanning the site are not disadvantaged by the release of information that causes others to sell loan units that their existing settings buy, so that those who do buy into loans make informed decisions to do so. As a general rule of thumb the workflow will be to pause trading for a few days to allow lenders to review their targets before opening up the market again wherever it is sensible to do so. To my mind, the new "Manual Investment Disabled" functionality works very well. I like that a suspended loan is clearly flagged as such in the Loan Book list and that the flag disappears once you've re-enabled the "My Investment Target" slider. Pretty slick.
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Post by chris on Jul 24, 2015 12:58:21 GMT
OK, so my Manual Investments into loan #152 have been disabled as per the new system, but aren't I supposed to be able to exercise my right to re-enable it chris? I can't, and I want to. (Yes, I know, as my mother used to tell me with regular monotony (and I am horrified to discover I now tell my nieces despite my generally benevolent and subversive aunt persona) "I want, doesn't get!". But it's not an unreasonable want.) Edit: Well that was a quick fix Edit2: A bit further playing with this (it's a setting I've never used before) shows that this was actually probably user error on my part. I was trying to slide the button because it looked to me like a slider thing such as you get on iPad settings, but that does nothing at all. Only clicking it brings up the confirmation message so you can then make the change. Fair enough, but I'd say I'm fairly computer savvy, so might others be confused by this? Typically, I expect to click buttons, and slide sliders. New system isn't actually live yet. This is just the admin team using the tools they currently have.
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