Liz
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Post by Liz on Aug 19, 2015 11:57:07 GMT
I'm curious as to which site you are referring? Still very new to this game. FC (sometimes) offer bridging loans at 10%. AC have WT loans at 10%. (AC also have bridging loans at more than 10%, but historically several have run into problems.) There may be other platforms with similar offers. Recently 2 bridging loans on TC, one only yesterday @ 10% and 13%
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Aug 19, 2015 12:00:09 GMT
Whilst I acknowledge the effect of supply and demand on SS, what really hacks me off is the performance of the website when loans go live. Agreed,so surely there are three time related "solutions" that SS must consider: 1) Longer term; address the demand imbalance without diluting loan quality; 2) Medium term; fix the hopeless IT as a matter of urgency; and 3)Immediate term;until at least 2) is accomplished, implement reasonable 24 hour limits at a balance that wont scare off larger investors,but will give most investors a reasonable chance of a piece of loan. savingstream; is this really asking too much?
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max
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Post by max on Aug 19, 2015 12:01:57 GMT
It seems all down to economics 1.1 rebalancing supply and demand My suggestions: 4) Flood the market with good loans and reduce your margin to each loan to zero. I'm serious here and this is indeed my favourite. I believe SS business model is no longer loaning money - it's the market place they are creating. The value of the business is far from the margin SS makes from each loan now and is close to the volume of money invested in the platform and number of happy investors coming to their market. Surely economic theory says that in order to balance demand and supply SS should reduce the rates to borrowers and investors. There is no value to SS in creating a bigger market with no barriers to entry. If SS do not reduce rates someone else will. I believe SS business is not loaning money - it's creating a market place. Like Lending Club - profits will come later. SS can charge less to borrowers at this stage and keep rates to 12% to lenders. I think it does not make sense making profits at this stage of a startup. They should aim at sustaing more lenders and (big) borrowers in the market opening opportunities to funds higher scale loans - e.g. 10million. This will attract even more borrowers and lenders of larger size. Then SS could find themself managing a market on the scale of 100s of millions and 10k of active investors. The value of such a market would exceed any profits they can make from borrowers now by far. Yes eventually rates will go down - I don't think would be wise now though. This is only my v modest opinion - just an anonymous lender as everyone here 
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Aug 19, 2015 12:03:17 GMT
I'd propose that SS launch a Lendy Fan Club for those of us happy to accept SS's occasional shortcomings with equanimity and goodwill. Sole benefit of LFC membership = 30 mins priority access to all new loans. |
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max
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Post by max on Aug 19, 2015 12:13:48 GMT
It seems its all down to economics 1.1 rebalancing supply and demand So, please savingstream forget about bread crumbs and get to 100 million invested in the platform in the next 2 months. Investors here are ready and just waiting  Invested in what? If they had 100million pipeline they wouldnt have a problem, because supply would match demand. There wouldnt be an 'angry mob,' which includes some big investors by the way, as there wouldnt be a stampede. Very few platforms where supply isnt outstripped by demand, yet no angry mob. Criticism, complaints and grumbling generally arise when platforms dont work how their supposed to, which is largely the issue here. I agree there is a issue here - the angry mob surely it includes big fish. I agree - it is the result of poor management of the SS market place. So, I started this thread to collect suggestions opinion how to sort things out. I gave mine. I'm curious to ear others
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Aug 19, 2015 12:18:32 GMT
In the early days of Thincats, the same happended, loans filled quick, several days with no loans, then a flood of loans entailed. After a few defaults and a flood of loans, these loans never filled.
Again recently the loans have dried up and the latest loan filled in hours with several complaining at missing out.
1. Defaults when they happen will curtail demand.
2. It is so hard to balance supply and demand. The risk is a flood of bad loans to meet demand.
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Aug 19, 2015 12:21:46 GMT
In the early days of Thincats, the same happended, loans filled quick, several days with no loans, then a flood of loans entailed. After a few defaults and a flood of loans, these loans never filled. Again recently the loans have dried up and the latest loan filled in hours with several complaining at missing out. 1. Defaults when they happen will curtail demand. 2. It is so hard to balance supply and demand. The risk is a flood of bad loans to meet demand. ; I'm really not convinced that this sounds like a credible business plan
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max
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Post by max on Aug 19, 2015 12:29:44 GMT
Many people desperately wanting to invest into savingstream loans are turning into an angry mob when they find out that there are not enough loans for everyone to invest. So I started this (provocative?) thread to collect and make suggestions on how to get rid of the angry mob - It makes bad PR and turns happy investors like me depressed  A little drastic don't you think?! Many of the issues raised are very succinct & valid. Some might have worded their views a bit too strongly but, they are entitled to their opinions & entitled to voice them. At the end of the day if some don't like SS's methods, they will take their money elsewhere but, you cannot help but feel it might bite SS in the proverbial sooner or later. Having said that, both sides are entitled to do what they feel best suits them, even if the other doesn't agree with it. Of course everyone is entitle to their opinions and should voice them. Also, there are good reasons for the angry mob. But after anger and frustration cool down, we can have a constructive discussion on how would we sort things out if we were at the steer. Most likely our opinions will go with the wind. But in this p2p day and age there is also a chance that they will be listen to. Never dreamed with my bank
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am
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Post by am on Aug 19, 2015 12:37:55 GMT
I believe SS business is not loaning money - it's creating a market place. Like Lending Club - profits will come later. SS can charge less to borrowers at this stage and keep rates to 12% to lenders. I think it does not make sense making profits at this stage of a startup. They should aim at sustaing more lenders and (big) borrowers in the market opening opportunities to funds higher scale loans - e.g. 10million. This will attract even more borrowers and lenders of larger size. Then SS could find themself managing a market on the scale of 100s of millions and 10k of active investors. The value of such a market would exceed any profits they can make from borrowers now by far. Yes eventually rates will go down - I don't think would be wise now though. This is only my v modest opinion - just an anonymous lender as everyone here My impression is that Lendy think that their business is lending money - the purpose of the SavingStream arm is twofold 1) Increase their return on capital employed. (Lend at 18% and lay off half at 12% equates to an effective return, before overheads, of 24%.) 2) Diversify their loan book, so that they're less vulnerable to an individual loan going bad. Their business model seems to be more like Wellesley (using P2P to leverage their capital invested in property loans) than FC (lending on property to facilitate building a P2P business). They make their money on property lending; if the SavingStream business ends up being valuable that's a bonus rather than a core component of the business plan. Lendy's mileage may vary.
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max
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Post by max on Aug 19, 2015 12:51:59 GMT
Many people desperately wanting to invest into savingstream loans are turning into an angry mob when they find out that there are not enough loans for everyone to invest. So I started this (provocative?) thread to collect and make suggestions on how to get rid of the angry mob - It makes bad PR and turns happy investors like me depressed Max, In reply to "...this (provocative?) thread..." Just calm down! Get some tea and watch this! Did I say calm down? Well, calm down there! Harry Enfield - The Scousers www.youtube.com/watch?v=6k2YEc6dozA what a cup of tea
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am
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Post by am on Aug 19, 2015 13:01:58 GMT
Elsewhere (probably the general board) the question was asked as to what advice should be given to P2P companies on IT - mine was employ/contract IT staff from the banking/stockbrocking business, who know how the problems have been solved in the past.
There's probably a niche available for a specialist company providing IT services to the P2P sector, but the variety of business models limits the ability to leverage advantages of scale.
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sam i am
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Post by sam i am on Aug 19, 2015 14:32:20 GMT
My impression is that Lendy think that their business is lending money - the purpose of the SavingStream arm is twofold 1) Increase their return on capital employed. (Lend at 18% and lay off half at 12% equates to an effective return, before overheads, of 24%.) 2) Diversify their loan book, so that they're less vulnerable to an individual loan going bad. Their business model seems to be more like Wellesley (using P2P to leverage their capital invested in property loans) than FC (lending on property to facilitate building a P2P business). They make their money on property lending; if the SavingStream business ends up being valuable that's a bonus rather than a core component of the business plan. Lendy's mileage may vary. I agree with the above and I think the evidence for this view is: 1) Lendy were lending for some months before they developed the Saving Stream platform. 2) Investors lend to Lendy, not the borrower. I believe the trust arrangement is only being put in place due to investor demand not because Saving Stream really has a desire for investors to lend directly to borrowers 3) Investors receive a fixed return and do not incur fees. This is compatible with lending money to a loan business and less with the model of a platform that makes money from providing the service of bringing lenders and borrowers together Of course Lendy/Saving Stream may change its priorities over time as the business grows.
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Post by sterilized on Aug 19, 2015 15:56:04 GMT
Yes this is a provocative thread. Please bear in mind though the following that happened to me and you may not be as chirpy:-
1. email arrived in my in box to inform me of these loans 12 minutes after they actually went live.
2. I managed to log in and deposit some money. (for some even logging in was an achievement)
3. Could not access the loans page until all the loans were virtually gone.
It does seem that SS are oversubscribed at the moment but without investors in the early days, of which I am one , they would not be in this position today. I am a relatively small investor and I am not angry that I have been unable to invest this time around as alternatives are available. However the time spent yesterday trying to invest was clearly wasted and that is what makes me angry and frustrated. If SS wants to be a bigger hitter in the p2p market then they must get their act together and communicate with their investors properly and on time and get the IT systems sorted BEFORE any more loans go live.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 19, 2015 16:01:31 GMT
My impression is that Lendy think that their business is lending money - the purpose of the SavingStream arm is twofold 1) Increase their return on capital employed. (Lend at 18% and lay off half at 12% equates to an effective return, before overheads, of 24%.) 2) Diversify their loan book, so that they're less vulnerable to an individual loan going bad. Their business model seems to be more like Wellesley (using P2P to leverage their capital invested in property loans) than FC (lending on property to facilitate building a P2P business). They make their money on property lending; if the SavingStream business ends up being valuable that's a bonus rather than a core component of the business plan. Lendy's mileage may vary. I agree with the above and I think the evidence for this view is: 1) Lendy were lending for some months before they developed the Saving Stream platform. 2) Investors lend to Lendy, not the borrower. I believe the trust arrangement is only being put in place due to investor demand not because Saving Stream really has a desire for investors to lend directly to borrowers 3) Investors receive a fixed return and do not incur fees. This is compatible with lending money to a loan business and less with the model of a platform that makes money from providing the service of bringing lenders and borrowers together Of course Lendy/Saving Stream may change its priorities over time as the business grows. Its one of the notable trends in P2P recently, platforms acting as a means to de-risk/grow commercial lending by an existing entity. SS was amongst the first (think AC had origins in B2L funding for AI) but Wellesley, MT, Ablrate, FE, Mintos, FK & Fruitful to name a few have similar charateristics in whole or part.
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