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Post by chris on Sept 12, 2015 19:03:44 GMT
Currently the first tranche of Midlands Trade #104: £36,759.67 -1.0% discount chris / Mark / Colin - there is a minor bug on the units available popup, it is describing this loan as #147 (The popup for loan 169 describes it as 237) ?? Thanks. That's our loan id and auction id (which is the public facing number) catching out a developer again. Will have them dragged over hot coals.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Sept 12, 2015 19:45:41 GMT
Currently the first tranche of Midlands Trade #104: £36,759.67 -1.0% discount I'm bidding for tranche 2 and 3 at a 1% discount if any use to anyone instead
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Sept 12, 2015 21:33:26 GMT
Currently the first tranche of Midlands Trade #104: £36,759.67 -1.0% discount I'm bidding for tranche 2 and 3 at a 1% discount if any use to anyone instead Can I ask why those tranches?
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Sept 12, 2015 22:58:31 GMT
Currently the first tranche of Midlands Trade #104: £36,759.67 -1.0% discount It's now down to £33,747.91, so either the sellers have changed their mind(s) or the discount is helping some people sell. I'm still not buying, though.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Sept 12, 2015 23:11:57 GMT
I'm bidding for tranche 2 and 3 at a 1% discount if any use to anyone instead Can I ask why those tranches? The mysteries of AC... But now the only one of the Midland Trade with a discount is the first and largest one, 33747.91 @1% discount out of a total of 480,509.10 So I've just tried buying some and I'm surprised to see that it bought the units even thought it was 8 minutes past midnight, when there always used to be market lock down , ie no buys/sells... In Edit. I've just tried another small buy at a 00:15hrs and the market seems to be in night time lockdown (2nd Edit: It took about 7minutes to buy it, but a third buy was almost instant I'm forgetting that it's taking the money from the QAA) But I'm also finding that there is often a tool tip that refuses to disappear, I've had it a few times since the launch; the tool tip that says Colin don't know if that's important, I'm assuming Chris is on Hols.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Sept 12, 2015 23:23:27 GMT
Currently the first tranche of Midlands Trade #104: £36,759.67 -1.0% discount It's now down to £33,747.91, so either the sellers have changed their mind(s) or the discount is helping some people sell. I'm still not buying, though. Are you waiting for a bigger discount or perhaps don't like the proposition? Or need liquidity?
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Post by chris on Sept 13, 2015 5:32:53 GMT
Can I ask why those tranches? The mysteries of AC... But now the only one of the Midland Trade with a discount is the first and largest one, 33747.91 @1% discount out of a total of 480,509.10 So I've just tried buying some and I'm surprised to see that it bought the units even thought it was 8 minutes past midnight, when there always used to be market lock down , ie no buys/sells... In Edit. I've just tried another small buy at a 00:15hrs and the market seems to be in night time lockdown (2nd Edit: It took about 7minutes to buy it, but a third buy was almost instant I'm forgetting that it's taking the money from the QAA) But I'm also finding that there is often a tool tip that refuses to disappear, I've had it a few times since the launch; the tool tip that says Colin don't know if that's important, I'm assuming Chris is on Hols. There's no longer an overnight lockdown on the aftermarket as the race condition that was causing issues before has been resolved.
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duck
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Post by duck on Sept 13, 2015 7:14:54 GMT
Apologies for heading back to the CGT portion of this thread, I agree a definitive statement from AC would be helpful. That said with the information in front of me my feeling is that there is not a capital gain when purchasing a discounted loan (although there could be claim a loss if you sell at a discount)
Looking at a purchase statement there is a distinction between the loan parts (different identifiers)
.... so you are not buying the old loan part, you are buying a new loan part, at a certain price, so no capital gain.
As somebody who has both personal and business accounts I have a feeling that I will be scratching my head a bit on this one!
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Sept 13, 2015 7:37:45 GMT
I'm bidding for tranche 2 and 3 at a 1% discount if any use to anyone instead Can I ask why those tranches? Sure. I don't have any T2 and so I am happy to have some. T2 and T3 are shorter than T4 and T5 so as I will probably hold to maturity a 1% discount is more valuable on the shorter investments.
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Post by chris on Sept 13, 2015 7:44:01 GMT
Apologies for heading back to the CGT portion of this thread, I agree a definitive statement from AC would be helpful. That said with the information in front of me my feeling is that there is not a capital gain when purchasing a discounted loan (although there could be claim a loss if you sell at a discount)
Looking at a purchase statement there is a distinction between the loan parts (different identifiers)
.... so you are not buying the old loan part, you are buying a new loan part, at a certain price, so no capital gain.
As somebody who has both personal and business accounts I have a feeling that I will be scratching my head a bit on this one! It's important to remember that we're not tax advisers, and nor are the other platforms. Some of the advise or guidance being given could well be called into question by the tax man and interpreted differently by them. If in doubt you'll need to seek your own advice. That said I will forward this thread on to the board to see if there's anything we'd like to say on the matter.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Sept 13, 2015 7:52:17 GMT
chris - I don't expect you to give us tax advice but it would be helpful to know whether or not a "sale" results in the creation of a new loan. duck - The change in identifier doesn't necessarily mean that it's a new loan. It could just be the system's way of tracking that the ownership has changed.
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Post by chris on Sept 13, 2015 7:59:23 GMT
chris - I don't expect you to give us tax advice but it would be helpful to know whether or not a "sale" results in the creation of a new loan. duck - The change in identifier doesn't necessarily mean that it's a new loan. It could just be the system's way of tracking that the ownership has changed. I remember the change in id being a legal requirement but don't know on the treatment of it being an assignment vs new loan. Will try and find out.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Sept 13, 2015 8:06:13 GMT
A possible wrinkle that could make buying or selling at other than par undesirable is that hmrc might decide that you are carrying out a lending business (if you do it a lot). I've certainly heard it said that the flippers on FC are supposed to be taxed 'differently' than regular lenders. Has anyone heard of this? It's not so much whether you are carrying out a lending business but whether you are carrying out a trade. I think 'flipping' is clearly a trade and I think all profits and losses should be taxed as income. At the other end of the spectrum I don't think a few sales and purchases for portfolio management purposes would be considered trading, even if they are at a premium or discount. In between it's a bit of a grey area, and I don't think that it's necessarily "all or nothing" either. Looking at recent activity, it's possible that one might look to arbitrage Midlands Trade Finance, buying at a discount and selling at par. I think that would be trading, but I doubt that it would taint all other lending activity. This is a difficult area and if the amounts are non-trivial advice (from someone more expert than me) would be needed.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Sept 13, 2015 8:33:11 GMT
It's important to remember that we're not tax advisers, and nor are the other platforms. Some of the advise or guidance being given could well be called into question by the tax man and interpreted differently by them. If in doubt you'll need to seek your own advice. That said I will forward this thread on to the board to see if there's anything we'd like to say on the matter. You have to remember that the cost for most of us of advice exceeds the difference between what we can earn on AC and what we can earn on another simpler platform. Also without knowing the exact mechanisms you use to 'buy' and 'sell' loan parts any advisor is going to struggle to give advice.
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duck
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Post by duck on Sept 13, 2015 13:45:12 GMT
chris - I don't expect you to give us tax advice but it would be helpful to know whether or not a "sale" results in the creation of a new loan. duck - The change in identifier doesn't necessarily mean that it's a new loan. It could just be the system's way of tracking that the ownership has changed. chris I certainly wasn't expecting tax advice, my accountants are already well paid and love my questions  . What interests me is the question that pikestaff posed.
pikestaff, point taken and your question would provide the answer ........ that said, I was simply putting forwards an 'argument' that I would be prepared to run if needs be.
In reality the actual amounts will be small unless you are a very big player ..... but being an engineer I do love 'detail'.
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. What interests me is the question that pikestaff posed.