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Post by ablrateandy on Oct 4, 2015 19:23:53 GMT
If they did, it went right over my head.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 20:21:28 GMT
I worry more about the "airframe hours" which give you an idea of the value of the craft, but, at inspection those remaining hours can be increased (or reduced). Meanwhile particular aircraft types become more or less attractive year by year. All in all, only short term loans for me.  |
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james
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Post by james on Oct 4, 2015 22:32:05 GMT
Oh, I thought it was an attempt at levity - was I mistaken? Maybe, but flew right over my head (but did anyone actually mention an aircraft to start with?) No but they are fair game when discussing pawn security because some of the pawn loans are secured on aircraft. I don't know what those specific loans do about the maintenance issue. In the non-pawn case handled by Ablrate the lease payments are partly put into a fund to pay for the maintenance, eliminating this particular issue. Those doing pawn might either do something similar or might just ensure that the license won't expire before the end of the loan plus some reasonable selling time period.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Oct 18, 2015 7:40:50 GMT
Ok, how do you evaluate a high end car (£350k+)?
I'm guessing that the numbers of buyers that could afford such a thing is small? Therefore time to sell if default could be a while?
The asset itself (in no particular order):
a) Age - new best or classic car
b) Mileage - low as possible
c) Extras - as many as possible
d) Desirability/popularity
e) Time of year - convertibles
Guess its much the same criteria as if you were buying a car yourself?
Any other thoughts?
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ben
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Post by ben on Oct 18, 2015 10:29:40 GMT
Yes think of it as if you were buying it, what is the value new? and work it out from there
As in this case there ill be a limited buyer market and I would think would take awhile to sell plus probably be fairly costly
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Post by mrclondon on Oct 18, 2015 10:50:09 GMT
stevio d) Desirability/popularity (manufacturer's waiting list ?) f) RHD vs LHD Yes the market is small, but if you are outside the coverage of London local news, google supercar knightsbridge nuisance to better understand a major market segment for such cars.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2015 10:57:08 GMT
not so sure the market is that small, the number of people who could buy a £350k must be in the millions world wide, and the number who might find the UK a good place to store their money is equally high.
asset storage and th value of things is a very emotional and private thing. None of these things have much true value in themselves, except as scrap (and the value of scrap iron is down again).
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 18, 2015 13:49:11 GMT
Ok, how do you evaluate a high end car (£350k+)? Would you be thinking in terms of a new loan that got emailed out by one of the platforms the other day (MT?) If so, then I'd start by googling for the list price of the car in question, and scratching my head when I found it was nearly £150k less than the claimed market value, and over £60k less than the amount being borrowed against it.
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upland
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Post by upland on Oct 22, 2015 9:57:52 GMT
Ok, how do you evaluate a high end car (£350k+)? I'm guessing that the numbers of buyers that could afford such a thing is small? Therefore time to sell if default could be a while? The asset itself (in no particular order): a) Age - new best or classic car b) Mileage - low as possible c) Extras - as many as possible d) Desirability/popularity e) Time of year - convertibles Guess its much the same criteria as if you were buying a car yourself? Any other thoughts? Indeed , the Ferrari. I did that and found much the same. Speaking to a friend of mine who is keen on the 'car market' he sort of could understand it. As I respect his knowledge in this field I did think that MT may be worth the benefit of the doubt. There are twists and foibles in most market situations that only the people close to it have a good understanding (some of the time?). In the stock market I have long since given up with the notion of simple relationships like when a share goes down its a buy , its only a buy when its stopped going down and that is usually a question of time-scale and judgement. So often an overbloated expensive share rises more and more and can do no wrong , certainly not a sell. Why cannot a car do the same. The question of judgement is the key for me and sadly my judgement in the car market is grim but if the platform pushes it then I should at least consider it. At the end of the day if the platform brings in howler after howler that make the investors poorer then the platforms business must decline. I feel at the moment that the real money to be made for these platforms is to create a viable business that can be sold on to the big boys for a good multiple. A stream of losses will not help that at all. I suppose eventually that it will all change and investors will get so gung ho and daft scenarios will start to prevail and losses made. Thats my thoughts.
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Investboy
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Trying to recover from P2P revolution
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Post by Investboy on Oct 22, 2015 10:12:56 GMT
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james
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Post by james on Oct 22, 2015 22:02:17 GMT
Right hand drive, the one being lent against. Which was bought by the borrower for more than list price and was due to receive a deposit from a buyer today, with the borrower telling MoneyThing that they can tell prospective lenders the price, with sight by MoneyThing of the sales invoice. This is an area where selling prices can exceed list prices, particularly for highly popular models production of which stopped six months ago, as applies in this case.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 23, 2015 7:37:18 GMT
Oh, sure, I know that the supercar market can experience little bubbles of hype which grow into premiums. But they're fairly short-lived until the next latest-greatest comes along. And this isn't even one of the uber-halo models to justify this apparent 70% premium... <shrug> It's too dubious for me, and that's all that really matters at the end of the day. Your sense of smell may well differ. |
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james
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Post by james on Oct 23, 2015 15:00:07 GMT
Oh, sure, I know that the supercar market can experience little bubbles of hype which grow into premiums. But they're fairly short-lived until the next latest-greatest comes along. And this isn't even one of the uber-halo models to justify this apparent 70% premium... <shrug> It's too dubious for me, and that's all that really matters at the end of the day. Your sense of smell may well differ. Well, this car is no longer being offered for a loan so it appears that the sale is going ahead at something around the value quoted, which presumably we'll find out once the deal is fully done, since the borrower has said that the will do this. The brother story is one of the possible risks, though this particular borrower probably doesn't have much business from city bonuses.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Oct 25, 2015 22:17:36 GMT
Oh, sure, I know that the supercar market can experience little bubbles of hype which grow into premiums. But they're fairly short-lived until the next latest-greatest comes along. And this isn't even one of the uber-halo models to justify this apparent 70% premium... <shrug> It's too dubious for me, and that's all that really matters at the end of the day. Your sense of smell may well differ. Well, this car is no longer being offered for a loan so it appears that the sale is going ahead at something around the value quoted, which presumably we'll find out once the deal is fully done, since the borrower has said that the will do this. The brother story is one of the possible risks, though this particular borrower probably doesn't have much business from city bonuses. brother story?
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james
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Post by james on Oct 25, 2015 22:42:17 GMT
Someone had written about some particular business vanishing when city bonuses did, I forget just where/when and might have made a mistake in ue of the word £"brother" since I can't find it now. The point for this particular borrower is that they aren't near to the City of London so that particular risk probably doesn't apply much. Though stock markets dropping a lot would probably affect a fair few of the potential customers who may be spending some of their current stock market wealth.
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