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Post by lendingcrowd on Oct 2, 2015 10:20:26 GMT
Hi all, We thought it would be a good idea to create a thread to share new loans that have been added to the platform. These two new loans went live on the Loan Auction yesterday (1st October 2015). Loan 1 G*** a** F******* Ltd. Loan Target - £30,000 Credit Band - B Loan Term - 60 months Purpose - Expansion Closing - 22nd October 2015 Loan 2 Seven Spirit Limited Loan Target - £100,000 Credit Band - B+ Loan Term - 24 months Purpose - Expansion Closing - 23rd October 2015
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Oct 2, 2015 10:34:18 GMT
Slightly surprised to see these listed with a ReBS-like 21 day auction period, meaning I'll be bidding properly in about 20 days then. Why so long?
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arbster
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Post by arbster on Oct 2, 2015 10:39:21 GMT
Slightly surprised to see these listed with a ReBS-like 21 day auction period, meaning I'll be bidding properly in about 20 days then. Why so long? I was going to ask the same thing - 21 days is a very long time for money to be sitting in an auction. 7 days should be more than enough, IMO. This thread is a very good idea, though. Thanks.
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Post by lendingcrowd on Oct 2, 2015 10:55:49 GMT
Hi SteveT and arbsterYour feedback has been noted. The reason we have longer loan periods is to ensure that the loans are filled. As we grow we anticipate the time to fill the loans will get shorter and thus our auctions will be listed for a shorter time. Many thanks, LendingCrowd
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Post by flx123 on Oct 2, 2015 11:05:38 GMT
I was going to ask the same thing - 21 days is a very long time for money to be sitting in an auction. 7 days should be more than enough, IMO. This thread is a very good idea, though. Thanks. I would imagine the 21 day period is related to the early days when there was a limited number of lenders. Now that the numbers are increasing perhaps lendingcrowd should consider shortening this period or drawdown the loan when fully funded. I don't like extended auction periods and usually wait until the last day before bidding. I completely agree, unlikely to bid on a loan more than a day or two in advance.
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arbster
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Post by arbster on Oct 2, 2015 11:07:12 GMT
I was going to ask the same thing - 21 days is a very long time for money to be sitting in an auction. 7 days should be more than enough, IMO. This thread is a very good idea, though. Thanks. I would imagine the 21 day period is related to the early days when there was a limited number of lenders. Now that the numbers are increasing perhaps lendingcrowd should consider shortening this period or drawdown the loan when fully funded. I don't like extended auction periods and usually wait until the last day before bidding.There's a common theme in yours and SteveT's posts, which lendingcrowd should be aware of. Having extended auctions might actually be causing them to take a long time to fill. How about making them shorter and extending them if they don't fill, to a maximum of 21 days?
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Oct 2, 2015 11:16:00 GMT
On a related point, was the V**** I****** Ltd extended by 3 days this morning? I thought I'd mentally logged it as ending today, yet it now shows 3 days left and I can find nothing on the listing to say whether it's been extended. If it has, it would be good to send out an email to bidders to let them know (as a courtesy)
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arbster
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Post by arbster on Oct 2, 2015 11:39:02 GMT
On a related point, was the V**** I****** Ltd extended by 3 days this morning? I thought I'd mentally logged it as ending today, yet it now shows 3 days left and I can find nothing on the listing to say whether it's been extended. If it has, it would be good to send out an email to bidders to let them know (as a courtesy) I noticed the same with W**** t/a B**** yesterday, which added another day all of a sudden. This slightly opaque process will lead to unhelpful behaviours like people bidding at the last minute, but then the loan being extended before/after they bid, resulting in frustration either way.
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madpierre
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Post by madpierre on Oct 2, 2015 11:58:51 GMT
I would agree with the comments above. Now that we have a new influx of lenders who are accustomed to last minute bidding I would support a reduced bidding period and an extension where the loan has not been filled. Sadly I have been outbid on a few recent loans which previously has been a rare occurrence. But I'll live with it. However, I do wonder whether the large bids at the lowest interest levels in a certain recently closed loan were a deliberate means of reducing the final interest rate to the borrower Perhaps they were bid by the borrower's mother
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Post by lendingcrowd on Oct 2, 2015 12:06:36 GMT
Yes I can see what you are saying arbster. I suppose for us we risk annoying investors who have bid on a loan auction that then goes on to be extended beyond the 7 days, so we have a longer auction period to start with. We are taking on all this feedback and will test shorter auction periods to see how they work for us. SteveT, this loan has been extended as it hadn’t filled and the borrower wanted to give it a little more time to see if it will fill. Arbster this loan was also extended by 24 hours. Apologies in future we will send out emails to let investors know that a loan auction was extended.
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grahamg
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Post by grahamg on Oct 2, 2015 12:26:01 GMT
Yes I can see what you are saying arbster. I suppose for us we risk annoying investors who have bid on a loan auction that then goes on to be extended beyond the 7 days, so we have a longer auction period to start with. We are taking on all this feedback and will test shorter auction periods to see how they work for us. SteveT, this loan has been extended as it hadn’t filled and the borrower wanted to give it a little more time to see if it will fill. Arbster this loan was also extended by 24 hours. Apologies in future we will send out emails to let investors know that a loan auction was extended. I don't like extensions its a bit like watching paint dry or flogging a dead horse in the hope that some dim punters will come along and resurrect it . ReBs have extended a loan twice now C**** R*** A********* and still not filled after 17 days. A loan not filling should say something important to the platform about their choices or the borrower about how lenders see them. Instead it seems to get put down to not enough lenders or time. Don't think "the borrower wanted to give it a little more time to see if it will fill." cuts it, maybe the loan needs a lower rating and value.
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arbster
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Post by arbster on Oct 2, 2015 12:58:15 GMT
A loan not filling should say something important to the platform about their choices or the borrower about how lenders see them. Instead it seems to get put down to not enough lenders or time. Don't think "the borrower wanted to give it a little more time to see if it will fill." cuts it, maybe the loan needs a lower rating and value. Very valid points grahamg, and hopefully LC will look at the data they capture on how many lenders have looked and not bid, or have bid lower than on comparable loans. If everyone's seen it and decided not to bid, then maybe it's the offer itself. If it's just bigger than anything before, maybe time is really needed.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Oct 2, 2015 14:16:35 GMT
Yes I can see what you are saying arbster. I suppose for us we risk annoying investors who have bid on a loan auction that then goes on to be extended beyond the 7 days, so we have a longer auction period to start with. We are taking on all this feedback and will test shorter auction periods to see how they work for us. SteveT, this loan has been extended as it hadn’t filled and the borrower wanted to give it a little more time to see if it will fill. Arbster this loan was also extended by 24 hours. Apologies in future we will send out emails to let investors know that a loan auction was extended. Actually you can't be certain it wouldn't have filled in the original time allotted, since it was extended with several hours still to go (and over 90% filled). I, for one, would have bid again had the rates stayed at a decent level as it approached closure. Perhaps others would too. Now I'll sit on my money until Monday comes. Extending loans when a loan is slow to fill is one of the main reasons why ReBS is going nowhere. Unless LC takes a different approach that encourages lenders to bid early (and doesn't penalise them for doing so) then you face having the very same outcome. My thinking is that no auction should need to run longer than 7-10 days; if the lender base haven't heard about a new loan by then, that is a communications failure not a lending issue. Likewise, unless a loan is a lot bigger than loans that have filled previously, no loan should have problems filling within 7-10 days; if a new loan won't fill in that time then the chances are that it is unattractive versus other opportunities available (on LC and elsewhere). Either the rate has been misjudged versus the risk, the information provided is inadequate or the responses to questions have been off-putting. So how to deal with a loan that hasn't filled after its initial 7-10 days, without annoying the very lenders you're trying to encourage to bid (on this loan and those to come)? I suggest there are 2 options: a) If it's tracking a long way off filling, either accept this fact (at whatever stage it becomes obvious) and cancel the auction to release money to lenders so they can bid on something more worthwhile, or (as FC sometimes do) improve the terms mid-auction by adding cashback or some other incentive or b) If it's close to filling (as VI Ltd was), extend the auction by a day or two but ACCEPT / LOCK-IN all the bids already made at the point the initial auction period finished. That way, late bidders are only bidding for the unfilled portion of the loan and may end up with a lower rate than some of those that bid early, rather than the other way around. Nothing winds me up more than having my cash locked up in an auction for a couple of weeks, then seeing it extended (and possibly extended again), only for the "clever money" to arrive just a couple of minutes before the loan is finally going to heave itself over the line and knocking out my bids. Those that commit to a loan early should be advantaged over those that game the system by holding off bidding until it's already 100% filled, not the other way around.
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Post by lendingcrowd on Oct 2, 2015 14:18:03 GMT
We have put another loan live today. Based on your feedback we've taken this loan auction period down from 21 days to 12 days. Sunny Accountancy Services Ltd.Loan Target - £20,000 Credit Band - B+ Loan Term - 60 months Purpose - Expansion Closing - 14th October 2015
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Post by Butch Cassidy on Oct 2, 2015 14:37:06 GMT
Yes I can see what you are saying arbster. I suppose for us we risk annoying investors who have bid on a loan auction that then goes on to be extended beyond the 7 days, so we have a longer auction period to start with. We are taking on all this feedback and will test shorter auction periods to see how they work for us. SteveT, this loan has been extended as it hadn’t filled and the borrower wanted to give it a little more time to see if it will fill. Arbster this loan was also extended by 24 hours. Apologies in future we will send out emails to let investors know that a loan auction was extended. Actually you can't be certain it wouldn't have filled in the original time allotted, since it was extended with several hours still to go (and over 90% filled). I, for one, would have bid again had the rates stayed at a decent level as it approached closure. Perhaps others would too. Now I'll sit on my money until Monday comes. Extending loans when a loan is slow to fill is one of the main reasons why ReBS is going nowhere. Unless LC takes a different approach that encourages lenders to bid early (and doesn't penalise them for doing so) then you face having the very same outcome. My thinking is that no auction should need to run longer than 7-10 days; if the lender base haven't heard about a new loan by then, that is a communications failure not a lending issue. Likewise, unless a loan is a lot bigger than loans that have filled previously, no loan should have problems filling within 7-10 days; if a new loan won't fill in that time then the chances are that it is unattractive versus other opportunities available (on LC and elsewhere). Either the rate has been misjudged versus the risk, the information provided is inadequate or the responses to questions have been off-putting. So how to deal with a loan that hasn't filled after its initial 7-10 days, without annoying the very lenders you're trying to encourage to bid (on this loan and those to come)? I suggest there are 2 options: a) If it's tracking a long way off filling, either accept this fact (at whatever stage it becomes obvious) and cancel the auction to release money to lenders so they can bid on something more worthwhile, or (as FC sometimes do) improve the terms mid-auction by adding cashback or some other incentive or b) If it's close to filling (as VI Ltd was), extend the auction by a day or two but ACCEPT / LOCK-IN all the bids already made at the point the initial auction period finished. That way, late bidders are only bidding for the unfilled portion of the loan and may end up with a lower rate than some of those that bid early, rather than the other way around. Nothing winds me up more than having my cash locked up in an auction for a couple of weeks, then seeing it extended (and possibly extended again), only for the "clever money" to arrive just a couple of minutes before the loan is finally going to heave itself over the line and knocking out my bids. Those that commit to a loan early should be advantaged over those that game the system by holding off bidding until it's already 100% filled, not the other way around. I tend to agree with a lot of the above, I too was considering bidding more, but as I am new to LC I wanted to test their "end of auction behaviour." I think this problem comes when new/young platforms need to understand how to balance overall supply & demand (& I am willing to cut them some slack as they learn, especially if they are responsive to lenders ideas) nothing is more deflating than auctions failing to fill. However they could use underwriting to fill the final 10% of close finishers or start from fully underwritten & bid out, thus giving certainty of both filling, end date & drawdown. Lenders just do not want uncertainty or extended deadtime only to be bid out or cancelled at the very end of a long process. Alternatively if the auction rates are within acceptable borrower boundaries just close when 100% full thus giving lenders an incentive to bid early. There are many ways to achieve success & LC will need to find what best suits them & their lender base but PLEASE JUST KEEP YOUR SYSTEMS SIMPLE & YOUR COMMUNICATIONS GOOD, these basics are what some of the bigger players have forgotten (or never had) & the growing ones are maintaining (MT, SS, Mintos etc).
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