|
|
Post by chris on Feb 13, 2014 7:44:13 GMT
...there's small to no reason to participate in the primary auctions unless buying on the SM is too awkward or too blink-and-you'll-miss-it. Which it tends to be at the moment. But I see growth in underwriting leading to the SM being the main market for smaller investors. At which point I will want to know, how can I be an underwriter and what does it pay? (BTW I see TC moving in the same direction if psm has his way...) At the moment entry criteria is £250k but that will probably evolve over time. If you're interested in investing at that level or higher then drop me a line and I'll connect you to the right people.
|
|
|
|
Post by chris on Feb 13, 2014 7:47:17 GMT
I doubt there has been over a million of the Leeds loan change hands, so unless it's part of the plan from the off, the 'official' underwriters are holding on to what they are brought in to cover. IIRC, Chris has said that the horseshoe charts continue to update after a loan is drawn down, so that if there had been a chunk of the horseshoe that was 'underwriter' green then it should shrink as those loan parts are sold on the Aftermarket. So it should be obvious to all whether the underwriters are still wanting to sell some loan parts or not. The Leeds chart is showing no underwriter involvement now, so if the entire portion of the loan that was underwritten at the time the auction ended hasn't come to the Aftermarket then it suggests that the underwriter has decided to keep some of the loan for themselves. There's nothing to say, however, that they'd keep that holding for the whole life of the loan -- especially Leeds which is 3-years, interest only -- so some of that holding might become available on the Aftermarket eventually. If the underwriters are confident that they can sell loans on the Aftermarket quickly, they might decide to hang on to Leeds loan parts, for instance, until shortly before they need to supply underwriter funds for a loan that's about to be drawn down. This is correct. To date £3m of loan units have been traded on the aftermarket. If the horseshoe doesn't show any green then there's no underwriting left - although there is a known small bug in the total where loan units are traded after one or more principal repayments have been received. I will fix that but it's relatively low priority on our list at the moment.
|
|
|
|
Post by chris on Feb 13, 2014 11:43:00 GMT
Which it tends to be at the moment. But I see growth in underwriting leading to the SM being the main market for smaller investors. At which point I will want to know, how can I be an underwriter and what does it pay? (BTW I see TC moving in the same direction if psm has his way...) I think you're on to something there. I think he'd like to shunt all the little people into the TLC/son-of-TCL loans. But I'm not going to give up 0.5% and all control of who I lend to. For me, there's always the suggestion, that I saw somewhere, that AC really only exists to provide access to underwriting (fees) for parts or VIP customers of the Assetz group. If so, being an underwriter may not be available to regular mortals like me. Plus of course being an underwriter means being able to find all of the money for a loan not just a big chunk. (unless they agree amongst themselves) Also, another point about SM is that presumably the underwriter would be very skilled or may employ others at determining risk so wouldn't invest unless they were sure about the deal. But then maybe they only want the loan to stay good enough to offload it and keep the fee (I feel I'm arguing myself into a corner here) Is there a list of underwriters so that when we buy on the SM, we know if we're buying from a underwriter or not? that suggestion is not true. Assetz Capital has always been about open access to all lenders - hence our £20 minimum bid, zero lender fees, zero aftermarket fees, access to pre-bidding for all, no selling for a premium on the aftermarket, all the support and changes we've made based on suggestion from our entire lender base, etc. Our reliance on underwriting is a simple consequence of our rapid growth, large average loan sizes, and the market dynamics of our lender base. Were all our loans filling quickly without the need for underwriting then we would not use underwriting, and you can already see that we do not seek it on smaller loans that we have no issues filling. Any HNW who agrees to our terms may become an underwriter, no need to be an immortal. Current entry requirement is having £250k to invest through the platform. If this is of interest to you then send me a personal message and I'll introduce you to the program. There's no published list of underwriters, however if you look at the bids tab within each loan you could work it out. Underwriters also do not need to fill a loan in its entirety. We can use funds from several underwriters to fill a loan should it be necessary. Edit: It's also worth noting that the entire market, not just our site, is rapidly evolving and changing and the dynamics of the primary and aftermarkets are almost guaranteed to change over time.
|
|
oldgrumpy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,087 
Likes: 3,233
|
Post by oldgrumpy on Feb 13, 2014 11:46:36 GMT
Good morning, Chris 
|
|
|
|
Post by chris on Feb 13, 2014 11:56:33 GMT
Otherwise, as AH has suggested a couple of times now, do away with the auction and intend to sell everything on the 2ndry, but that might mean an 'underwriters' size fee on the whole loan, reducing the rates to us. If they are reduced by say an av. of 0.5 -1% (changing the current 10-15 range to 9-14 ish) but you can get funds working from day one, I might not feel too put out. There would need to be a mechanism in place, in that scenario, to limit the amount people can take of the smaller loans, similar to the restricted bidding on the primary. I feel there is a perfect P2P site just waiting to bloom and the AC asset backed loans are excellent fertiliser. That is certainly one possible direction, but there are several dynamics pulling in different directions. For the largest loans we do it probably makes sense, but for smaller loans I would personally prefer to see a short auction (maybe even just a day or two) with restrictions on the bid amounts per person, before any remaining loan units are sold freely on the aftermarket. Not a fan of trying to place restrictions on the aftermarket, I'll claim that it just doesn't feel right but really it would be a bit of a pain to code  . There are a variety technological changes on the way that will change the market dynamics somewhat - it's going to be very interesting year for both the site and the wider market, seeing how all the market forces play out. Edit: We have a lender event planned for the 22nd March where, amongst other items, these technological changes are going to be announced and detailed. All registered lenders are welcome to join, details will be announced shortly.
|
|
mikes1531
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,453
Likes: 2,320
|
Post by mikes1531 on Feb 13, 2014 21:13:43 GMT
We have a lender event planned for the 22nd March where, amongst other items, these technological changes are going to be announced and detailed. All registered lenders are welcome to join, details will be announced shortly. Is this event intended to be a 'physical' one or a 'virtual' one?
|
|
|
|
Post by chris on Feb 13, 2014 22:29:34 GMT
We have a lender event planned for the 22nd March where, amongst other items, these technological changes are going to be announced and detailed. All registered lenders are welcome to join, details will be announced shortly. Is this event intended to be a 'physical' one or a 'virtual' one? It's a real event, held in London. Details are here: www.assetzcapital.co.uk/about-us/events/view/assetz-capital-lender-dayAfter the event I will post details of the new features on the forum and I'm sure a newsletter will go out as well. The main advantage of the event itself will be being able to interact with the entire team and to ask questions of myself and the other directors.
|
|
markr
Member of DD Central
Posts: 766
Likes: 426
|
Post by markr on Feb 13, 2014 22:46:39 GMT
It's a real event, held in London. Any plans for one in Stockport for us oop north?
|
|
|
|
Post by chris on Feb 13, 2014 22:47:31 GMT
It's a real event, held in London. Any plans for one in Stockport for us oop north? They are held periodically, so there will be one down the line. I don't have any details as yet.
|
|
|
|
Post by pepperpot on Feb 13, 2014 23:03:24 GMT
Any plans for one in Stockport for us oop north? They are held periodically, so there will be one down the line. I don't have any details as yet. London? LONDON? Traitor.
|
|
|
|
Post by chris on Feb 13, 2014 23:04:14 GMT
They are held periodically, so there will be one down the line. I don't have any details as yet. London? LONDON? Traitor. Well I'm based down south so it's more convenient for me!
|
|
|
|
Post by pepperpot on Feb 13, 2014 23:12:01 GMT
Well I'm based down south so it's more convenient for me! Talk to the hand, cos the face ain't listenin
|
|
|
|
Post by pepperpot on Feb 13, 2014 23:27:28 GMT
The Leeds chart is showing no underwriter involvement now, so if the entire portion of the loan that was underwritten at the time the auction ended hasn't come to the Aftermarket then it suggests that the underwriter has decided to keep some of the loan for themselves. There's nothing to say, however, that they'd keep that holding for the whole life of the loan -- especially Leeds which is 3-years, interest only -- so some of that holding might become available on the Aftermarket eventually. If the underwriters are confident that they can sell loans on the Aftermarket quickly, they might decide to hang on to Leeds loan parts, for instance, until shortly before they need to supply underwriter funds for a loan that's about to be drawn down. I know it's a few months ago now and memory can go a little hazy on detail, but I don't remember ever seeing 'underwriter' green on the Leeds loan horseshoe graphy thing, was it before that particular update?
|
|
|
|
Post by oldnick on Feb 14, 2014 7:05:28 GMT
Well I'm based down south so it's more convenient for me! Is it possible to set up a live video feed on'tinternet? It'll be awkward for me that day. Just post the meal, I'll microwave it
|
|
|
|
Post by chris on Feb 14, 2014 7:12:28 GMT
The highlighting of underwriting loan units has been a feature since day one of the horseshoe.
However looking back that loan had £650k of underwriting that was ultimately bid out before the auction closed.
|
|
.
