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Post by cautious on Feb 8, 2014 18:42:35 GMT
Hello all,
I have a bond maturing next month and need to re-invest for income.
What proportion of savings do forum readers consider prudent to invest in PSP lenders?
I read in an online article somewhere (can't remember which one) that their financial expert recommended approx. 5% of total savings... and.certainly no more than 10%.
What do you think ?
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Post by davee39 on Feb 8, 2014 19:08:17 GMT
Financial Adviser: One who profits from advising the gullible to invest or save in unsuitable financial products.
My plan is to increase my current P2P savings from 10% to 20% of assets, and my income funds (Yielding about 4%) to at least 10%. The alternative, as bonds mature, would be to accept 2% on 3 year 'safe' savings. Spread your cash across the largest and longest established sites, but be careful with the multitude of newer start-ups - some of these will go under. As always if you have any doubts avoid, and if very high returns look too good to be true they probably are. Follow the discussions here and on the Zopa Forum but beware that there is a small minority of vociferous Funding Circle critics who should not be allowed to put you off a carefully thought out investment.
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Post by batchoy on Feb 8, 2014 19:43:01 GMT
I also recall the article, at the time the 5% struck me a being very low, but the the memory serves the 'Expert' was some what anti Crowdfunding due to the current lack of regulation and to my reading an apparent lack of understanding of the types of Crowdfunding in general and the different models of P2P/P2B lending in particular.
To a great degree it is down to your personal views on risk and return and it is an ongoing debate between myself and a colleague. He won't invest in P2P/P2B lending due to the lack of regulation and his perceived risk but he is prepared to invest in equities in emerging markets because that's where pundits say you should be putting your money to get the best return, whilst I wouldn't want to invest in emerging markets having had first hand experience of the way some of the countries operate, and am far more comfortable investing in P2P/P2B.
Personally I have about 12% in P2P/P2B and am looking to increase it to 25%-30%. However those funds are spread across several platforms, within the platforms across a multitude of loans thus spreading my risks and investments in loans can range from 2 to 4 figure sums depending on the levels of security available against the loan and my view of the risks.
One key thing that I would recommend is toe dipping, i.e. deposit a small some in a platform, invest it and get an understanding of the platform and the way it operates. From there you can settle on the platforms you like and suit your risk profile and start making larger investments.
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Post by cautious on Feb 8, 2014 20:31:33 GMT
Thank you for those replies.
I am just coming up to having 1k deposited in dribs and drabs with RS at the moment as a 'toe-dipper', all in the 5 yr market. I have not included this money in my savings portfolio having 'written it off' as I invested it just in case.
My bond maturity would take me upto 12% in P2P should I invest that, probably also in RS.
Further maturing bonds later on this year would take my to 38% in total in P2P/P2B, probably in Wellesley and RS as my preferred platforms although I have yet to try Wellesley.
Otherwise the best that I can see is 3.2% at a 5Yr fix.......but that rate will seriously reduce my income by 25% as I average 4.2% at the moment before maturity.
Decisions, decisions. .
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Feb 8, 2014 22:36:10 GMT
Thank you for those replies.
I am just coming up to having 1k deposited in dribs and drabs with RS at the moment as a 'toe-dipper', all in the 5 yr market. I have not included this money in my savings portfolio having 'written it off' as I invested it just in case.
My bond maturity would take me upto 12% in P2P should I invest that, probably also in RS.
Further maturing bonds later on this year would take my to 38% in total in P2P/P2B, probably in Wellesley and RS as my preferred platforms although I have yet to try Wellesley.
Otherwise the best that I can see is 3.2% at a 5Yr fix.......but that rate will seriously reduce my income by 25% as I average 4.2% at the moment before maturity.
Decisions, decisions. .
You've received some sound advice from forum members. I may stick my tiny toe into a newer P2P/P2B but come April then FCA will IMO be a 'shake up' time for the industry. Whilst lenders/investors funds will not be covered by the FSCS the member companies of the FCA will be required to adhere to set standards. This requirement may be easier said than done as the one big hurdle member companies will need is PI insurance and that is not an insignificant cost. By way of example, many smaller solicitor firms have been required to close or at least merge as they simply could not afford the premiums for this year. So whilst having PI insurance may not be the be all and end all it certainly will be a determining factor in deciding the commitment of several P2P/P2B companies currently out there. Before making any decisions I'd invest plenty of time in reading round the forum of numerous poster experiences as these are folks that are actively lending/investing.
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Post by jevans4949 on Feb 9, 2014 1:17:11 GMT
My 2 cent's worth: spread your P2P investments across multiple platforms - as you would with equity investments. Note that there is no FSCS guarantee on P2P companies.
On each platform, spread your investment as thinly as you can across loans. Take note of comments on this forum, and the Zopa forum, and avoid platforms with negative comments regarding bad debt.
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Post by davee39 on Feb 9, 2014 12:19:23 GMT
Do not ignore Zopa, despite their lower rates and lively comments on the Forum they offer a sound platform to provide a savings spread.
My view of the current controversies aired on the forum is that having been the first UK P2P they are having to change the way the business works both to meet regulatory requirements, but also to provide a springboard for growth. Despite the rapid growth over the last few years the major businesses must be looking to grow several times over to start to offer a real alternative to the Banks (and to make decent profit). Zopa also has a fairly priced facility to cash in your savings, although costs may increase if rates rise.
As to the future of interest rates - there has been some tightening of the rates offered for fixed rate mortgages so 5 yr savings may have hit rock bottom, this makes RS Monthly access, and Wellesley Monthly and 6 monthly offerings look attractive as 'wait and see' options.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Feb 9, 2014 17:46:16 GMT
I would say P2P lending (to A rated consumers) is probably one of the lowest risk investments you can make after putting your money in the bank. Infact there are some scenarios in which P2P is safer than in the bank, such as a government bail in. You have to remember that banks have a ton of toxic debt on their books and you as a depositor are underwriting that. I am looking to have about 35% of my savings in P2P by the time of regulation when I expect rates to drop as more money comes into the market.
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Post by Duane Dibley on Feb 9, 2014 17:59:35 GMT
Interesting discussion.
I have about 75% in equities (mainly index trackers), 20% in bonds, NS&I Certs and cash and about 5% in P2P.
Looking to decrease exposure to equities over the next 12 months and increase P2P to about 10-15%.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Feb 9, 2014 19:03:01 GMT
Interesting discussion. I have about 75% in equities (mainly index trackers), 20% in bonds, NS&I Certs and cash and about 5% in P2P. Looking to decrease exposure to equities over the next 12 months and increase P2P to about 10-15%. Thing that scares me about equities is the market manipulation of asset prices by central banks with QE and what will happen when they start tapering. You look at any historic index 30-40% of its value is wiped out every decade or so. P2P for me is the only place that you can get a reasonable return without the risk of losing a large amount of the capital invested. A large part of the return is cutting out the middle man (ie the banks) not the risk of the investment. I cannot see any scenarios in which I am going to lose more than 10% of my capital invested with zopa or ratesetter that do not involve a total collapse of the financial system. The biggest risk in my opinion is putting money with a P2P lender who shuts down. So although diversifying is good, I would stay away from the smaller players in the market.
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Post by Duane Dibley on Feb 9, 2014 21:07:30 GMT
You look at any historic index 30-40% of its value is wiped out every decade or so. True, but you'll also get years (like the last one) when the index will go up by 30-40% in a single year. However it's the long term I'm interested in and I'm as confident as I can be that equities will on average give a real return of 3-4% a year. For the rationale behind that I'd suggest reading Smarter Investing by Tim Hale. Will P2P give a similar return over the long term? Possibly, but it's certainly not proven.
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Post by bracknellboy on Feb 9, 2014 21:26:13 GMT
However it's the long term I'm interested in and I'm as confident as I can be that equities will on average give a real return of 3-4% a year. For the rationale behind that I'd suggest reading Smarter Investing by Tim Hale. I rather good book: pity I haven't followed more of its advice.
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JamesFrance
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Post by JamesFrance on Feb 10, 2014 8:17:06 GMT
I hold several equity income Investment Trust shares which I mainly bought 20 years ago. Their internal rate of return is just over 10% per annum. I doubt this will be repeated over the next 20 years though. I also hold shares in one FT100 company with an IRR of just under 15%, not very sensible I know, but I am reluctant to sell and trigger a large CGT liability and I do have confidence in the direction in which the company is going.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Feb 10, 2014 11:44:08 GMT
If you are putting some into Ratesetter 5yr, please don't be influenced by the rate they suggest (with the words "my selected rate of"). At this moment they are saying 5.2%, whereas I have put my repayments back in at 5.7% (possibly should have gone one notch higher), which I think will be achieved by Wednesday or Thursday - possibly sooner; there is only £230K on offer at below 5.8% and this can be lent out in a day!
This post now has out of date information in it. Ratesetter has changed its policy.
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Post by valerieb on Feb 12, 2014 15:16:59 GMT
I've gradually built up my P2P portfolio to just over 30% of my total investments and the rest, apart from a little cash, is invested in mainly UK funds from the Hargreaves Lansdown Wealth 150 list. Funds in smaller and medium sized concerns are doing well but my emerging markets funds, after initial gains and occasional small rallies, are set on a determinedly downward path! I did buy these for the longer term but am getting twitchy; should I cut my losses now? I'm getting less and less convinced by all the hype around MINT economies, etc. Any views?
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