james
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Post by james on Oct 16, 2015 11:55:48 GMT
There's a potentially interesting story about how TrustBuddy may have misused investor money. One of those ways is particularly interesting, a suggestion that money from new lenders may have been used to pay back lenders for loans which had defaulted, without even telling the original lender about the default. That could be interesting because normal law for this situation is that the lender improperly received the money and can face a demand to return it to repay the newer lender whose money was taken. This is what has happened in the Madoff recovery, with many who made money early on being compelled to return their false profits to help pay those who didn't exit. So even getting out in time might not be enough to protect an investor in such a situation. The suggestion that it might have happened from the start of the company is also interesting, because the accounts of the company that were apparently not accurate were used to justify the company share valuation. That may lead to shareholders making claims against the people responsible for the accounts. When writing about this, do remember that we don't yet know what happened in much detail and the reports might not be accurate. It's hard to correctly phrase posts so that they don't say with more certainty than we have what happened but it's necessary, in part because there is a real chance that criminal charges might result and we need to take care not to prejudge that possibility or presume a particular result of a prosecution.
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koba
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Post by koba on Oct 18, 2015 15:06:08 GMT
Site is shut down. Rights issue cancelled. Matter referred to police. More anon.
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teddy
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Post by teddy on Oct 22, 2015 20:05:09 GMT
BustBuddyTrustBuddy - bankrupt ponzi scheme, delisted from the Nasdaq OMX. Swedish lawyer says it's unlikely any lenders will see their money again. The receivers are in.
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sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Oct 22, 2015 21:33:55 GMT
From what is reported, there is £23m lent to borrowers and £2.9m missing.
The borrowers have been told to continue making payments. If none of the borrowers default, then the £23m of capital should be returned to lenders. In addition, there should be enough interest accruing on those loans to cover the £2.9m that is missing.
That means a net return of zero, which is about the same rate you get leaving the money in the bank.
I wonder if the real scandal has yet to happen. How much will the administrators charge to wind down the loan book ?
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Post by westonkevRS on Oct 28, 2015 18:49:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2015 13:17:00 GMT
It will have really huge negative impact for P2P lending reputation.
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james
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Post by james on Nov 9, 2015 14:08:39 GMT
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mikeb
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Post by mikeb on Nov 9, 2015 18:44:36 GMT
Would it be too weird if a bunch of people got together to raise the money to buy it, via something like kickstarter ? The first P2P funded P2P platform? By the people, for the people and all that ...
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Post by uncletone on Nov 9, 2015 18:54:08 GMT
I'll go a fiver, but I'm not going to make the tea...
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james
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Post by james on Nov 18, 2015 22:42:28 GMT
Stories 1 and 2 via machine translation about the bankruptcy administrator's plans: 1. Lenders are to get all of the money in the client fund account, not other creditors. Initially theere was concern that much client money was not in properly segregated client accounts held in trust. 2. Most of the value to lenders is in €300 million of loans, not in the client fund account and it is expected that the value is only about 20% of this because of the large number of poor quality loans. They believe that the best way to proceed is to sell the whole loan book to the highest bidder and were seeking comments from lenders until 17 November after an email a week ago. Some lenders did get in touch saying that they wanted something else and the sale process is currently on hold. 3. They believe that if the loan book is not sold quickly it will lose value. This causes me to wonder whether they have chosen to keep any of the debt collection staff employed, giving me the impression not, not even for the month or three from insolvency it would take to chase even the most recently made short term loans where borrowers may be just trying not paying to see what happens. 4. Five to ten potential buyers for the platform software with value likely to be in the tens of millions of Crowns. Ten million Crowns is about £750k. So far I think that the administrator may well have made a costly for lenders mistake by not keeping debt collection staff employed for the first few months during which most of the payday-type loans would become due, though many were previously expected to take three to four months to fully repay if given the previously normal few extensions for a few months on request. it's pretty natural for many vulnerable borrowers to consider just not repaying if not chased and if in need of more time, as seemed to be normal business practice. No statistics on this but at least for payday-type lending it may well illustrate the practical importance of a viable living will approach that keeps debt collection activity going as normal for at least a few months. Even for longer term lending it's very likely that at least keeping debt collection running as normal for the first six or so weeks will help a lot, by quickly following up on those who try it on at the first payment after they learn of the company failure. I don't know if it's possible to write employment contracts for key debt collection employees that will keep them working for a few months after insolvency but if it can be done it seems like something that should be incorporated into the plans for at least consumer lenders, and probably beneficial also for a while for business lending as well. Maybe a segregated pay pot held in trust for this purpose would do the job if nothing else can? Same would apply to things like paying providers of automated debt collection phone calls and emails - has to continue for a while after insolvency to stop the try it on issue. Again money set aside in trust might be a way to get it done?
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arbster
Member of DD Central
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Post by arbster on Nov 19, 2015 7:43:23 GMT
Thanks James - interesting observations. Let's hope someone has the guts to write a "lessons learned from mistakes we made during the winding-up of TrustBuddy" paper, which other P2P companies and potential administrators can use for planning/execution purposes.
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Post by batchoy on Nov 19, 2015 18:39:10 GMT
I don't know if it's possible to write employment contracts for key debt collection employees that will keep them working for a few months after insolvency but if it can be done it seems like something that should be incorporated into the plans for at least consumer lenders, and probably beneficial also for a while for business lending as well. Maybe a segregated pay pot held in trust for this purpose would do the job if nothing else can? How a business is run when it goes into administration is very much down to the administrator and is independent of any contracts that might be in place for employees. I have been involved directly and indirectly several administrations and they have been handled in very different ways. In one the whole workforce was kept on as the Administrators quickly found a buyer, in another key production staff were kept on in order to complete and ship WIP plus they were offered a bonus if they stayed on, and in yet another everyone was laid off and the staff were given individual appointments for when they could enter the premises and collect the personal belongings.
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Post by benedikt on Nov 23, 2015 20:49:25 GMT
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Post by benedikt on Nov 23, 2015 21:01:34 GMT
>>This is what has happened in the Madoff recovery, with many who made money early on being compelled to return their false profits to help pay those who didn't exit. So even getting out in time might not be enough to protect an investor in such a situation.<<
Good if this applies to the former directors who sold their Trustbuddy shares at the peak of the market.
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james
Posts: 2,205
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Post by james on Jan 3, 2016 5:25:58 GMT
Around 7 December 2015 the liquidator wrote to investors saying that: 1. lenders are the owners of the client money, not the bankrupt company. 2. for payments received before bankruptcy money in client accounts would be split among all lenders, whether it was lent or not, due to the condition of the records. 3. for payments received from bankruptcy onwards money would be assigned to individual lenders based on the loans they have, to the extent that this ownership of the money can be identified from the records available. 4. again it appears that they have no debt collection staff at all still employed, seriously harming the likely interests of lenders by encouraging non-payment of loans. 5. they received objections from several large lenders to selling the whole loan book, with those lenders preferring to use debt collection so they will contact some lenders to tell them possible costs of debt collection and the offers that have been received for the whole loan book. So far they don't seem to have done a good job of protecting the interests of lenders as required by their duty of care and it would be very interesting to see just what happened to payment/non-payment rates for loans before and after bankruptcy to get some idea of just how much harm may have been done.
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