pom
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,922
Likes: 1,244
|
Post by pom on Nov 12, 2015 10:18:28 GMT
Is it just me or has the secondary market completely dried up? I haven't sold anything in over a week now. Particularly annoying when I'm down to my last 25 loan parts now, but even tho the non-property is at buyers rates higher than anyone else is offering, they still aren't selling (so I don't see any point in discounting my property when autobodge won't care, and there is clearly a dearth of active buyers).
|
|
|
Post by GSV3MIaC on Nov 12, 2015 10:29:55 GMT
Yes, it certainly is pretty slow the last few days, although I shifted some last w/end. Basically the upped %ages autobodge is allowed to buy means that as long as there are SOME auctions over 2 days old, almost ever last cent is pushed in that direction .. only exception seems to be where a newbie shows up with a big deposit, and autobodge can't invest it all in current auctions. There is so much out there though that 1 per hundred looks a good daily sale rate .. with only 25 you are for sure struggling.
As for manual buyers (and SM bots) .. I think they have largely voted with their feet .. like you, they are selling up and heading to places like (to judge from the shortage of supply there) Savings Trickle.
|
|
min
Member of DD Central
Posts: 615
Likes: 182
|
Post by min on Nov 12, 2015 10:30:41 GMT
Is it just me or has the secondary market completely dried up? I haven't sold anything in over a week now. Particularly annoying when I'm down to my last 25 loan parts now, but even tho the non-property is at buyers rates higher than anyone else is offering, they still aren't selling (so I don't see any point in discounting my property when autobodge won't care, and there is clearly a dearth of active buyers). Not completely dried up for me - 1 or 2 a day - mostly property at par but a few SMEs (A and B). Cs and Ds not shifting at all.
|
|
pom
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,922
Likes: 1,244
|
Post by pom on Nov 12, 2015 10:41:23 GMT
Is it just me or has the secondary market completely dried up? I haven't sold anything in over a week now. Particularly annoying when I'm down to my last 25 loan parts now, but even tho the non-property is at buyers rates higher than anyone else is offering, they still aren't selling (so I don't see any point in discounting my property when autobodge won't care, and there is clearly a dearth of active buyers). Not completely dried up for me - 1 or 2 a day - mostly property at par but a few SMEs (A and B). Cs and Ds not shifting at all. Hmm guess I should be glad I've already got rid of everything lower than an A then (and only have 2 SME parts left)....like it really seems to make much difference in real risk terms! Oh well fingers crossed
|
|
fasty
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,038
Likes: 388
|
Post by fasty on Nov 12, 2015 11:00:53 GMT
Maybe the situation will eventually improve as people who want out (following the change to fixed interest) progressively deplete their loan parts and leave. Unfortunately I have lost trust in the SM as an emergency exit in case I need cash relatively urgently. This severely limits both how much I am now prepared to invest as well what I'm now prepared to buy on the PM. I suspect that our Funky Chums may not have adequately considered the secondary effects of their actions.
|
|
jamesc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 447
Likes: 253
|
Post by jamesc on Nov 12, 2015 11:38:55 GMT
I have been involved actively on FC for five months, when I first started it was really fun buying and selling loan parts, its difficult to believe in that short space of time FC by its own short sighted actions have effectively destroyed that marketplace. A couple of months ago I traded up to 100 loan parts a day now its less than 5. I guess all good things come to an end but I did not think it would be this quick, all I can say is that I envy all you boys and girls for the multi years of fun and returns! you have had. I think going forward even E's other than the very small ones are going to struggle to fill, what are they going to do with 17174 buy it all themselves or add cashback ?
|
|
oldgrumpy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,087
Likes: 3,233
|
Post by oldgrumpy on Nov 12, 2015 11:45:36 GMT
I sold several "ordinary" C at +0.3% on 8/9 Nov and some mediocre A today at par, and some one bought a B at 7.6% today!
|
|
nick
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,056
Likes: 825
|
Post by nick on Nov 12, 2015 12:34:44 GMT
I have been involved actively on FC for five months, when I first started it was really fun buying and selling loan parts, its difficult to believe in that short space of time FC by its own short sighted actions have effectively destroyed that marketplace. A couple of months ago I traded up to 100 loan parts a day now its less than 5. I guess all good things come to an end but I did not think it would be this quick, all I can say is that I envy all you boys and girls for the multi years of fun and returns! you have had. I think going forward even E's other than the very small ones are going to struggle to fill, what are they going to do with 17174 buy it all themselves or add cashback ? I agree the fun has definitely gone! I started investing 18 months ago originally looking for somewhere to park cash, earn a reasonable return with good liquidity to access the cash if needed. It was soon transparent that if you were inclined to invest a bit of time, you could significantly enhance returns by flipping loan parts etc and I became more of a trader than investor. However, it was more the fun of trading the loan parts than the additional return which resulted in my spending a completely disproportionate amount of time on FC. On a purely economic basis, my time would have been better spent elsewhere - something my better half constantly reminds me of! Now that the change to fixed rates has significantly reduced the ability to enhance returns via trading, I will revert to being a passive investor (I may even contemplate using auto-bodge), which had been my original intent. Incidentally, I believe the move to fixed rates is far fairer to the average investor and the vast majority of investors on the platform. I see the returns as a being a zero sum game, ie traders/flippers make greater returns at the cost of the majority whom either don't have the time or fully understand the platform. So I fully understand and support what FC has attempted to do by introducing fixed rates, even though I agree on how they have gone about it or fully thought the implication all the way through. Ultimately, the only way I see fixed rates working is if they move fully towards Zopa's model with investment pools rather than allowing individual loan bidding. The variability in loan/investment supply/demand is such that FC will have to become a significant underwriter of the loans in the PM and sell in the SM, even if they try to be more active in managing flows by varying the level of fixed rates on a weekly basis.
|
|
ablender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,204
Likes: 555
|
Post by ablender on Nov 12, 2015 13:19:20 GMT
I have been involved actively on FC for five months, when I first started it was really fun buying and selling loan parts, its difficult to believe in that short space of time FC by its own short sighted actions have effectively destroyed that marketplace. A couple of months ago I traded up to 100 loan parts a day now its less than 5. I guess all good things come to an end but I did not think it would be this quick, all I can say is that I envy all you boys and girls for the multi years of fun and returns! you have had. I think going forward even E's other than the very small ones are going to struggle to fill, what are they going to do with 17174 buy it all themselves or add cashback ? I agree the fun has definitely gone! I started investing 18 months ago originally looking for somewhere to park cash, earn a reasonable return with good liquidity to access the cash if needed. It was soon transparent that if you were inclined to invest a bit of time, you could significantly enhance returns by flipping loan parts etc and I became more of a trader than investor. However, it was more the fun of trading the loan parts than the additional return which resulted in my spending a completely disproportionate amount of time on FC. On a purely economic basis, my time would have been better spent elsewhere - something my better half constantly reminds me of! Now that the change to fixed rates has significantly reduced the ability to enhance returns via trading, I will revert to being a passive investor (I may even contemplate using auto-bodge), which had been my original intent. Incidentally, I believe the move to fixed rates is far fairer to the average investor and the vast majority of investors on the platform. I see the returns as a being a zero sum game, ie traders/flippers make greater returns at the cost of the majority whom either don't have the time or fully understand the platform. So I fully understand and support what FC has attempted to do by introducing fixed rates, even though I agree on how they have gone about it or fully thought the implication all the way through. Ultimately, the only way I see fixed rates working is if they move fully towards Zopa's model with investment pools rather than allowing individual loan bidding. The variability in loan/investment supply/demand is such that FC will have to become a significant underwriter of the loans in the PM and sell in the SM, even if they try to be more active in managing flows by varying the level of fixed rates on a weekly basis. If they go "fully towards Zopa's model with investment pools rather than allowing individual loan bidding", it will definitely be the end.
|
|
treeman
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,026
Likes: 557
|
Post by treeman on Nov 12, 2015 14:21:22 GMT
Is it just me or has the secondary market completely dried up? I haven't sold anything in over a week now. Particularly annoying when I'm down to my last 25 loan parts now, but even tho the non-property is at buyers rates higher than anyone else is offering, they still aren't selling (so I don't see any point in discounting my property when autobodge won't care, and there is clearly a dearth of active buyers). Not completely dried up for me - 1 or 2 a day - mostly property at par but a few SMEs (A and B). Cs and Ds not shifting at all. Nor me. With only 40-50 listed (ignoring property at par) I'm selling 3-5 minimum every day this month (except 7th). A+ to D. No discounts. Many below fixed rates. Like Bs at 9.5%. Must be manual buyers...... Ex CB property bits market is swamped...... I sold several "ordinary" C at +0.3% on 8/9 Nov and some mediocre A today at par, and some one bought a B at 7.6% today! Someone took a (very) hopefully punted C at 9.1% this morning ! ...... Theories? Won't get one from me! Guess it's potluck who the buyers click on - logic doesn't seem to have any part to play.
|
|
sl75
Posts: 2,092
Likes: 1,245
|
Post by sl75 on Nov 12, 2015 14:31:58 GMT
Total loan part trades (as reported near the top of FC's stats page) have increased by £1M since Saturday, so there are definitely buyers out there if you have the loan parts they're looking for at the prices they're willing to pay.
My own recent sales have been a little slower than at the peak, but still not exactly shabby; my "average" loan part sale during the last week was for £82.36, offered at par, with an average buyer rate of 8.1% (range of rates reported in sales log: 7.4%(A+) to 10.5%(B)). All of these recent sales have been for loan parts smaller than £400 each.
|
|
|
Post by GSV3MIaC on Nov 15, 2015 11:56:50 GMT
Hmm, I can either believe FCs stats page (how often do they update it and how current is it?) or I can believe my own eyes .. the SM is definitely deader than a door-nail, at least at par, this weekend. It's pretty obvious where the money is going to .. there are lots of eligible (not 100% funded) loans on the PM, several of which are real dogs and need all the help they can get.
Hmm, be interesting to chart the 'PM funding gap' vs time (how much money can it soak up .. although for the first 2 days of each auction it'd be a guess, since we don't know how much of the bidding is part of the autobodge 50%, vs how much come from liveware).
|
|
min
Member of DD Central
Posts: 615
Likes: 182
|
Post by min on Nov 15, 2015 13:14:29 GMT
Hmm, I can either believe FCs stats page (how often do they update it and how current is it?) or I can believe my own eyes .. the SM is definitely deader than a door-nail, at least at par, this weekend. It's pretty obvious where the money is going to .. there are lots of eligible (not 100% funded) loans on the PM, several of which are real dogs and need all the help they can get. Hmm, be interesting to chart the 'PM funding gap' vs time (how much money can it soak up .. although for the first 2 days of each auction it'd be a guess, since we don't know how much of the bidding is part of the autobodge 50%, vs how much come from liveware). Not so here. Last week been 1 or 2 a day. Yesterday sold 8 - 4 at par and 4 with premium. I put it down to the dreadful weather. Can't go out so might as well explore what's for sale on Fusty Carnivores.
|
|
acky
Posts: 481
Likes: 262
|
Post by acky on Nov 15, 2015 14:03:03 GMT
I'm selling a few. It's been better, but it's certainly been worse as well.
|
|
pom
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,922
Likes: 1,244
|
Post by pom on Nov 15, 2015 19:38:10 GMT
I've sold 3 since I started the thread, 2 of which were my last remaining SMEs (at crazy buyers rates) but at least I'm now rid of those (except for my defaulted). Guess I'll leave my property at par for now and see what happens even tho I'm now a diversity criminal
|
|