webwiz
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 210
|
Post by webwiz on Nov 18, 2015 8:35:13 GMT
Maybe we should form one. I notice that the valuation on the Pipeline Shropshire site which has raised a number of eyebrows only costed £450. If there were a number of us we could obtain our own independent valuation at a nominal amount per head. Also If we were numerous our composite views might weigh more heavily with SS than as individuals in any negotiations. If anyone is interested please give your views on how it might work: organisation, subscription or not, etc. In particular if anyone would be prepared to act as organiser (I came up with the idea, so I've done my bit!)
|
|
SteveT
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,875 
Likes: 7,924
|
Post by SteveT on Nov 18, 2015 8:39:28 GMT
If you don't have sufficient trust in Saving Stream to believe that they will do their job professionally, would it not be simpler for you to just walk away and invest somewhere else? It's fair enough to ask reasonable questions of clarification but I think some of what's been posted in recent days about the current pipeline loans goes beyond reasonable (content and tone).
|
|
paulgul
Member of DD Central
Posts: 401
Likes: 92
|
Post by paulgul on Nov 18, 2015 9:03:09 GMT
If you don't have sufficient trust in Saving Stream to believe that they will do their job professionally, would it not be simpler for you to just walk away and invest somewhere else? It's fair enough to ask reasonable questions of clarification but I think some of what's been posted in recent days about the current pipeline loans goes beyond reasonable (content and tone). Quite agree
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2015 9:21:35 GMT
I think recent questions have been more about understanding the information provided. I certainly find my lack of experience enhanced by asking questions and getting great answers back though normally from the others on the forum than from SS (which I guess is how it should be).
In terms of alternative valuations, I think that misses the point of P2P. Once you decide to invest via a portal you "buy into" their processes. You can recommend improvements and praise new ideas. But if you don't like the processes don't invest.
On the other side I think it is ok to offer local knowledge as long as you don't end up just insulting the business.
I've been having a similar internal dialogue over a Seedrs project. There you can ask open questions of the CEO of the business, you can ask private questions and you can get answers. But at the end of the day you decide if you believe in the project and the Seedrs process, not set up alternative processes.
I also think we have to cut some slack for newbies, I know people here were kind enough to nudge me towards best behavior and I hope that is what we continue to do for all new comers.
|
|
dawn
Member of DD Central
Posts: 308 
Likes: 275
|
Post by dawn on Nov 18, 2015 9:37:42 GMT
I have been investing in P2P for 18 months - the first 12 with one company only until I realised (3 months ago when FC changed how they did things) that diversification didn't just mean within a company but should be across several companies (obvious when you think about it). That was when I discovered these forums (how could I have missed them for more than a year  ) and since then the forums for the 3 P2P companies I now use have been immensely useful (and entertaining at times). I have learnt so much from the postings of others and I now assess all my new potential loans in a completely different way to the way I used to. So as a relatively newbie to these forums (and to P2P in general) can I thank all of you more experienced investors for all your patience and help. It is greatly appreciated. And to the newbies who ask what they think may be simple or stupid questions - please keep asking. There are plenty of others out there (like me) that are benefiting from your courage to ask.  |
|
star dust
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,998
Likes: 3,531
|
Post by star dust on Nov 18, 2015 10:10:54 GMT
I'm more than happy with the combination of SS's documents, the (sometimes) enlightened and additional information provided by forum members, and my own 'investigations', in addition I have always found SS provide responses for any specific queries that I have if I email them. No amount of DD will ever safeguard or render anything completely risk free, but so far I have confidence in SS's processes in terms of both DD, loan management, and in the (admittedly less tested) recovery process. At the end of the day you have to make up your own mind, so I don't really see the need for this myself either.
|
|
freddy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 147
Likes: 145
|
Post by freddy on Nov 18, 2015 10:17:22 GMT
If you don't have sufficient trust in Saving Stream to believe that they will do their job professionally, would it not be simpler for you to just walk away and invest somewhere else? It's fair enough to ask reasonable questions of clarification but I think some of what's been posted in recent days about the current pipeline loans goes beyond reasonable (content and tone). +1
|
|
arbster
Member of DD Central
Posts: 810
Likes: 426
|
Post by arbster on Nov 18, 2015 10:22:56 GMT
If you don't have sufficient trust in Saving Stream to believe that they will do their job professionally, would it not be simpler for you to just walk away and invest somewhere else? It's fair enough to ask reasonable questions of clarification but I think some of what's been posted in recent days about the current pipeline loans goes beyond reasonable (content and tone). +1 A simple "thumbs up"/like for stevet's post would generally suffice, and would avoid it looking like someone has added a further comment to the discussion.
|
|
freddy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 147
Likes: 145
|
Post by freddy on Nov 18, 2015 10:24:31 GMT
Maybe we should form one. I notice that the valuation on the Pipeline Shropshire site which has raised a number of eyebrows only costed £450. If there were a number of us we could obtain our own independent valuation at a nominal amount per head. Also If we were numerous our composite views might weigh more heavily with SS than as individuals in any negotiations. If anyone is interested please give your views on how it might work: organisation, subscription or not, etc. In particular if anyone would be prepared to act as organiser (I came up with the idea, so I've done my bit!) As investors with SS we have a right to ask reasonable questions however setting up some sort of Watchdog Commitee is IMHO, a step to far. If it is felt that their DD is poor then there is always the option to invest elsewhere. Fully appreciate we all want to protect our investments but we should not forget that SS themselves earn considerable sums of money from these loans and it would not serve their interests to have failures.
|
|
webwiz
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 210
|
Post by webwiz on Nov 18, 2015 10:28:56 GMT
I don't know why you have all interpreted this idea as being somehow anti-SS. This was not my intention. I have an awful lot of money invested here and I would not have unless I trusted them. But a club would enable us to combine our DD and might be of use to SS if they wanted to gauge interest in any particular issue. I totally agree that a lot of negative comments on other threads go beyond what is reasonable, but I think that you have jumped to the wrong conclusion if you associate this idea with those.
|
|
nsinvestor
Member of DD Central
Posts: 105
Likes: 110
|
Post by nsinvestor on Nov 18, 2015 11:23:02 GMT
While I agree with the earlier comments that we need to trust SS to do their job, they could help themselves by providing more details to give a higher level of reassurance on the due dil process they have conducted.
I am less concerned about the valuation reports. I am more concerned about the checks that have been done on the borrower, title, future rent assignment (there may be a first charge over the building but if the valuation assumes a rental stream from sitting tenants, what is the mechanism for the new owners - us - to collect...) etc. Fraud and the time/cost in the legal process to recover bad debts are possibly bigger risks than standard credit exposure.
I would therefore turn this around and ask SS to consider what other information they could provide along with the loan documents to notch up the level of comfort (particularly for new and/or nervous investors).
|
|
duck
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,868
Likes: 6,911
|
Post by duck on Nov 18, 2015 11:32:28 GMT
Just heading back to the original idea, is there not a danger of a clique forming and the free exchange of ideas/thoughts/questions drying up if a sub-group is formed?
|
|
ablender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,204
Likes: 555
|
Post by ablender on Nov 18, 2015 17:33:04 GMT
I don't know why you have all interpreted this idea as being somehow anti-SS. This was not my intention. I have an awful lot of money invested here and I would not have unless I trusted them. But a club would enable us to combine our DD and might be of use to SS if they wanted to gauge interest in any particular issue. I totally agree that a lot of negative comments on other threads go beyond what is reasonable, but I think that you have jumped to the wrong conclusion if you associate this idea with those. Ain't you lucky! Do you want to invest some in me? 
|
|
|
|
Post by mattie on Nov 18, 2015 18:16:47 GMT
Aside from the issue of whether it is necessary to have a further valuation report carried out or trust in the professionalism of the qualified person engaged by SS to carry out the valuation survey, I think it would be highly impractical to do as proposed here, and send a further "independent" valuer round.
I can predict the response if a third party valuer were to turn up at the commercial premises where I work and announce "I have been commissioned by a bunch of random people from the internet to value your building"!
|
|
mikes1531
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,453
Likes: 2,320
|
Post by mikes1531 on Nov 18, 2015 20:41:14 GMT
Aside from the issue of whether it is necessary to have a further valuation report carried out or trust in the professionalism of the qualified person engaged by SS to carry out the valuation survey, I think it would be highly impractical to do as proposed here, and send a further "independent" valuer round. I can predict the response if a third party valuer were to turn up at the commercial premises where I work and announce "I have been commissioned by a bunch of random people from the internet to value your building"! Not to mention the timing aspect -- by the time SS release enough details to allow a 'club' to commission a 'second opinion' valuation, would there be enough time to produce the resulting report before the SS loan went live and was fully funded? That seems rather unlikely. It might be more feasible if SS were to cooperate fully and release the details in advance to the club, but why would they want to do that?
|
|
) and since then the forums for the 3 P2P companies I now use have been immensely useful (and entertaining at times). I have learnt so much from the postings of others and I now assess all my new potential loans in a completely different way to the way I used to.
