sqh
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Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Nov 27, 2015 0:06:03 GMT
The figures given are completely different from those connected with the loan that MT was trying to fill. I'm thinking it's the "expression of interest" loan. p2pindependentforum.com/post/61693Ed was going to pay us 1.5% per month (18% p.a)
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sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
Posts: 1,428
Likes: 1,212
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Post by sqh on Nov 27, 2015 3:24:05 GMT
The figures are different, but not wildly different enough to rule it out completely. I might be getting mixed up, but do I remember correctly that the borrower was a pair of brothers? Surely the figures are very similar. It's only the valuation that has increased from circa.£25M to £30M. That is probably the result of a formal valuation. The MT option 1 loan amount is identical at £8.5M. The MT option 2 was £3M for 6 months including interest. That looks like the £2.5M (without interest) that has now been sourced, which leaves £6M to be funded.
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Post by fundingsecure on Nov 27, 2015 7:53:40 GMT
To confirm - the borrower has not previously looked for any financing.
Although we cannot, at this stage, confirm any further details, we can assure you that the loan is not related to any request on MT, or indeed on any other platform.
FundingSecure
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Post by reeknralf on Nov 27, 2015 8:47:01 GMT
Every time I see these sort of offers, I feel there's a gap in the market for someone to set up a platform for aggregating bids from us minnows. A p2p2p platform where you own loan parts in a loan part.
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nick
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Post by nick on Nov 27, 2015 9:02:21 GMT
So if I understand this properly, someone with very deep pockets can lend a large sum, get a lot of interest. Then sell this on the SM, perhaps at a premium and get someone like me to pay his/her tax. Nice...! That's effectively what underwriting is - an incentive to take on the risk of purchasing, in this case, loan parts for later resell. The underwriter has the risk with being stuck with a concentrated position if they are unable to resell it quickly on the secondary market. Obviously the minimum underwriting size and bonuses awarded can be debated (I personally believe that lower amounts or flat rate would be fairer and more effective), but I believe it benefits all in the absence of sufficient normal investor interest at any single period of time (I personally believe that lower amounts or flat rate would be fairer and more effective in the vein of SS).
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Post by xyon100 on Nov 27, 2015 9:53:17 GMT
The very reasons I, and obviously many others, like SS. All this complex taxation talk makes my head spin, along with the secondary market with it's premiums, discounts and possible taxation implications is simply too much for many simple investors like myself. You clever bods are welcome to it, really. And speaking of which, one look at the secondary market has me wondering why anybody would buy? 9 percent is the best I see. Am I missing something?
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Nov 27, 2015 12:41:12 GMT
I'm struggling a bit to follow the logic in all this. OK, I can see the benefits of economies of scale here re the potential fewer number of investors, but does that really support up to a 5% interest premium?
Surely the big hurdle for FS is filling the loan so isn't the obvious answer to increase the overall rate to at least 13% while retaining some deep pocket premiums. We all saw the differing response on MT to their higher rate (for everyone) EOI and the Hull loan paying 12% across the board. Are big hitters really more interested in how much over and above the "herd" they are getting, rather than achieving a fair return on risk? Maybe I'm an innocent abroad but I really hope it's the latter.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Nov 27, 2015 13:57:09 GMT
I'm struggling a bit to follow the logic in all this. OK, I can see the benefits of economies of scale here re the potential fewer number of investors, but does that really support up to a 5% interest premium? Surely the big hurdle for FS is filling the loan so isn't the obvious answer to increase the overall rate to at least 13% while retaining some deep pocket premiums. We all saw the differing response on MT to their higher rate (for everyone) EOI and the Hull loan paying 12% across the board. Are big hitters really more interested in how much over and above the "herd" they are getting, rather than achieving a fair return on risk? Maybe I'm an innocent abroad but I really hope it's the latter. FS have been at this game rather longer that MT and I reckon they've got a fairly good handle on what it takes to motivate lenders of different sized pockets to start moving more significant (in their terms) chunks of money about. A "typical" FS bridging loan might be around the £500k mark and generally fills OK through a combination of smaller lenders at 12% plus some mid-range lenders getting 13/14/15% for £10k-50k sums. Another 1% across the board might be enough to get everyone to double their stakes but that still leaves FS some £5m short of a £6m target. To fill that sort of loan they need a fair number of the £250k+ brigade to take a serious look at FS and decide to move in some big money. My guess is the borrower will be paying around 1.5-1.7%pm / 18-20%pa so 17% leaves FS with a pretty thin margin on the very largest investments. But to give that sort of return to the largest players they need to keep as much in the bag as possible at the other end. Perhaps we'll see another bonus level inserted at 13% for £20k+ (say), but the risk then is that those who might have stretched to £50k for 14% decide the better risk/reward balance is to stick with £20k at 13%.
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Post by xyon100 on Nov 27, 2015 14:06:35 GMT
That's a very good point. Certainly can't argue with it when I am sorely tempted to offer up 50K at 14 percent, but would be much happier with 20K at 13%.
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sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Nov 27, 2015 14:06:49 GMT
Every time I see these sort of offers, I feel there's a gap in the market for someone to set up a platform for aggregating bids from us minnows. A p2p2p platform where you own loan parts in a loan part. It does actually exist on TC. They are called TLC loans and they benefit from the bonuses offered on larger bids. It isn't all that popular though, and it's being phased out. I don't think it would work well on FS because bonuses are paid upon repayment and I think you lose them when loanparts are sold on the SM. I think this loan is so enormous for the number of lenders that they need big underwriters. That means offering say: £4m @ 17% (10x£250k lenders)+(3x£500k lenders) £1m @ 15% (10x£100k lenders) £0.5m @ 14% (10x£50k lenders) £0.5m @ 12%. That is equivalent to 16% on average. If instead of staged bonuses FS offered everyone 12%+4%bonus that would be the same cost, but would we fill it? Perhaps we need a poll - "How much would you invest at 12% + 4% bonus?".
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Nov 27, 2015 14:15:53 GMT
That's a very good point. Certainly can't argue with it when I am sorely tempted to offer up 50K at 14 percent, but would be much happier with 20K at 13%. Yup, that's where I am too.
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am
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Post by am on Nov 27, 2015 15:02:52 GMT
Every time I see these sort of offers, I feel there's a gap in the market for someone to set up a platform for aggregating bids from us minnows. A p2p2p platform where you own loan parts in a loan part. Which platforms would allow investment clubs to sign up as lenders? The alternative is to set up a limited company. What would be the overheads? How much capital (250,000 £1 shares?) is needed to make it worthwhile.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Nov 27, 2015 17:02:34 GMT
I think this loan is so enormous for the number of lenders that they need big underwriters. That means offering say: £4m @ 17% (10x£250k lenders)+(3x£500k lenders) £1m @ 15% (10x£100k lenders) £0.5m @ 14% (10x£50k lenders) £0.5m @ 12%. That is equivalent to 16% on average. If instead of staged bonuses FS offered everyone 12%+4%bonus that would be the same cost, but would we fill it? Perhaps we need a poll - "How much would you invest at 12% + 4% bonus?".I don't think we're talking about underwriters here -- we're talking about investors. Even now that the SM exists, I think anyone taking £250k of this loan at the beginning would have difficulty selling off much of that within six months. Actually, by the time a few months have passed, there'd be a huge incentive to hold to maturity in order to retain the bonus. (Selling at three months earns 12%, holding for the next three months gives 17% for all six months, so those last three months actually are earning at a rate of 22%!) Unless the tax avoidance effect kicks in. (But does that work for those investing as a business?) A lot depends on whether FS really need to offer 17% to attract the £250+k investors. If they could get those investors by offering 16%, they could increase the bonuses on smaller investments and raise more money from those.
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Post by fundingsecure on Dec 4, 2015 16:40:33 GMT
UPDATE:
We have had a very positive response confirming that, subject to the necessary caveats, we would certainly be able to fund a loan of £6m.
We had hoped, by now, to be able to provide additional information and to post the loan on the platform, unfortunately this has not yet been possible.
We have started the due diligence and have already had a meeting with the borrower to review the overall loan requirements. We are still discussing the details and working on verifying a number of aspects of both the security and the exit strategy.
There remains a lot of work to be done before a final decision is taken but as soon as we are able we will come back with additional information. We hope to be in a position to provide an update early next week.
FundingSecure
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Post by xyon100 on Dec 4, 2015 17:51:19 GMT
Intriguing. Is it a whopping great packing machine?
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