twoheads
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Programming
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Post by twoheads on Feb 8, 2017 21:17:06 GMT
seeingred, Your scheme is simple, informative and useful and I second your application for the position of communications chief at SS.
It will be important to nail down the definitions and hope that they are adhered to correctly. It is fuzzy definitions and inappropriate application thereof which leads to much of the confusion here.
A while ago I gave up on 'SS bashing' and I'm trying to stick to that.
I do however hope that SS learn something useful from the many good ideas put forward on this and other threads in the forum.
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Carter
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Post by Carter on Feb 8, 2017 21:19:18 GMT
In the specific case of these loans where the update mentioned settlement negotiations why would SS continue to fund the interest when there is a probability that it will not be recouped, that's no small amount on a monthly basis.
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am
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Post by am on Feb 8, 2017 21:20:13 GMT
change Rolling interest to PAID INTEREST It is the concept - and the need to have accurate and timely updates in a format that everyone understands that is key to avoiding so many Chinese whispers and (needless?) questioning of the SS platform. This should benefit SS as well as investors. Pre-paid interest? Then we would have two states * interest pre-paid, original term * interest pre-paid, extended term plus the other 3.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Feb 8, 2017 22:36:00 GMT
Would it help if each loan was kept properly up to date on a rating system similar to this? Could SS say if it might be possible?
ROLLING INTEREST (everything OK, and interest paid up front) EXTENDED (also paid up front and with days adjusted) OVERDUE (interest being paid monthly but no formal agreement to extend) PROPPED UP (interest not being paid but not yet defaulted as capital security still looks OK, interest being paid by SS) and finally, DEFAULTED (some risk to capital unless PF can compensate). Then when people buy on the SM there is clarity. 
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Feb 9, 2017 0:53:44 GMT
Would it help if each loan was kept properly up to date on a rating system similar to this? Could SS say if it might be possible?
ROLLING INTEREST (everything OK, and interest paid up front) EXTENDED (also paid up front and with days adjusted) OVERDUE (interest being paid monthly but no formal agreement to extend) PROPPED UP (interest not being paid but not yet defaulted as capital security still looks OK, interest being paid by SS) and finally, DEFAULTED (some risk to capital unless PF can compensate). Then when people buy on the SM there is clarity. I really like that. One "UI" (or "presentation", or "slide"?) comment though, the clockwise nature of the dial leads naturally (maybe only to me?) to continuing to read the graphic in a clockwise manner. As opposed to reading it on a left to right carriage return basis. A very minor quibble on my part and as much of interest because of the way the (my?) brain works than anything else. The basic principle, and what it's trying to portray, is spot on. I'd be amused to know how many people "read it" the way I did and glitched for a second, and how many people read it the correct way  . The serious point here though is the fact that we're even discussing things as fundamental as this. I hope somebody at Saving Stream Towers is paying attention.
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Feb 9, 2017 9:14:49 GMT
the chart is great and would be a good addition but my understanding is that we have all this info already
positive day loans = interest still held from draw down/agreed extension
negative day loans = SS paying interest
default loans = no one paying interest
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 9, 2017 9:19:28 GMT
the chart is great and would be a good addition but my understanding is that we have all this info already positive day loans = interest still held from draw down/agreed extension negative day loans = SS paying interest I don't think you can guarantee it's that simple.
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seeingred
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Post by seeingred on Feb 9, 2017 9:27:39 GMT
I was once involved in a minor way with data presentation and how the human mind retains the same data that is presented in different ways. Pie charts look pretty but ask people to redraw them a week later and some don't do too well. It seems to be better to use square areas or histograms with firm colours. As an exercise, try to memorise the pie charts and then try to memorise these - see which is most easily recalled a week later. You can present these square boxes in different ways, side by side, superimposed, etc. There is a whole science on data presentation and what people best remember. The marketing campaign to launch the phone company ORANGE years ago was brilliant. A single word but inextricably linked to bright memorable colour.   |
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Feb 9, 2017 9:36:26 GMT
the chart is great and would be a good addition but my understanding is that we have all this info already positive day loans = interest still held from draw down/agreed extension negative day loans = SS paying interest I don't think you can guarantee it's that simple. I think it is subject to the odd outlier perhaps - and that SS includes SSBL I suppose
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dovap
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Post by dovap on Feb 9, 2017 10:26:16 GMT
pics are luverly and all that but
couldn't SS just use the fairly radical notion of updating in a timely manner with clarity/accuracy and honesty the status of loans
using erm words ?
perhaps even on their website for the benefit of all.
Obviously not as easy as winging it with a few 'imminents' , 'legals' etc etc.
still guess there's no real need as long as troubles get pushed further down the road and the chaff is still being consumed
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toffeeboy
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Post by toffeeboy on Feb 9, 2017 12:58:57 GMT
In the specific case of these loans where the update mentioned settlement negotiations why would SS continue to fund the interest when there is a probability that it will not be recouped, that's no small amount on a monthly basis. SS fund the interest if it is their belief that the value of the asset will cover the capital outlay by investors and the interest that is being outlayed by themselves, they would believe that they are covered because they will get their money back once the loan is settled/asset sold which obviously isn't the case in this instance. The benefit for them is that they can then continue to pretend that the borrower is servicing the loan monthly and not have to put the loan into default as was the case with PBL020 which to some would look worse on the company, personally I expect a few defaults in order to receive interest rates this high.
It actually goes further on PBL081 where SS have leant the borrower a further £200k because he messed up and did work outside of the PP but didn't have the money to correct it. I would assume that they expect the property to exceed the capital lent by the interest they are presumably paying and also the extra £200k they have lent to the borrower.
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toffeeboy
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Post by toffeeboy on Feb 9, 2017 13:07:10 GMT
I don't think you can guarantee it's that simple. I think it is subject to the odd outlier perhaps - and that SS includes SSBL I suppose dandy we had been led to believe that the borrower was paying the interest monthly/quarterly if the loan remained out of default even if it had negative days. The one exception was PBL056 where SS had stated in the updates that they themselves were funding the interest for 2 - 3, four months ago. I assumed with the fact they have stated on one loan that they were funding it to recover the money from the sale that if they funded the interest for any other loans then they would make us aware of this fact in the updates.
Basically I think negative days means that someone is continuing to pay the interest but we have no way of knowing who except for the few where SS have stated that the borrower continues to service the loan.
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Carter
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Post by Carter on Feb 9, 2017 13:55:55 GMT
In the specific case of these loans where the update mentioned settlement negotiations why would SS continue to fund the interest when there is a probability that it will not be recouped, that's no small amount on a monthly basis. SS fund the interest if it is their belief that the value of the asset will cover the capital outlay by investors and the interest that is being outlayed by themselves, they would believe that they are covered because they will get their money back once the loan is settled/asset sold which obviously isn't the case in this instance. The benefit for them is that they can then continue to pretend that the borrower is servicing the loan monthly and not have to put the loan into default as was the case with PBL020 which to some would look worse on the company, personally I expect a few defaults in order to receive interest rates this high.
It actually goes further on PBL081 where SS have leant the borrower a further £200k because he messed up and did work outside of the PP but didn't have the money to correct it. I would assume that they expect the property to exceed the capital lent by the interest they are presumably paying and also the extra £200k they have lent to the borrower.
Thanks for the reply toffeeboy, the course of action by SS on PBL081 doesn't concern me as they were transparent about it and are funding this out if there own pocket on the judgement that the security will repay, seems this is a good solution for the borrower given the mess they got into. Propping loans up and paying out interest without disclosure when it's not clear if these funds will be recouped just doesn't feel right from a business sense for SS or the borrower. The borrower's debt to SS increases and SS are exposed to the potential loss. Like you I expect defaults also and the true test is how well these are handled.
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Post by WestonKevTMP on Feb 10, 2017 12:18:01 GMT
Sometime local news outlets are providing more timely news...
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Feb 13, 2017 0:01:05 GMT
Sometime local news outlets are providing more timely news... " Musical Players are being warned about performing at a Str**d venue after several others have reported not being paid.
The warning comes after both the hubby and wife who took on the C***** project, have both now been subject to b*nkr*ptcy orders" Not to worry, Kev.  Despite that, the borrowers have (apparently), "made an offer to settle the outstanding debt and we are now working towards this objective."
Thinks...... at what point since the loan was due for repayment were "we" not doing that? 
(e.g update nine months ago: Repayment expected shortly.)
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