sam i am
Member of DD Central
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Post by sam i am on Jan 14, 2016 0:24:22 GMT
Fine idea but why not start the auction at T=0 rather than when the first bid is made? If there haven't been multiple bids within the first 10 seconds then there's no problem. And if you think 10 seconds is not long enough to get a bid in (I can do it in 5 or less if no captcha), then just extend it a bit and still start at T=0.
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Post by sunspot on Jan 14, 2016 0:35:22 GMT
NO. Starting when the first bid arrives is extremely sensible - think of it as adapting to traffic loads, albeit crudely.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jan 14, 2016 7:51:53 GMT
What is the benefit over a simple allocation system , which is roughly the same thing starting BEFORE the part gets listed? This appears to combine the worst features of FFF with those of prefunding/allocation... You have to sit at your PC 24/7, and you still don't get what you want.
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Post by p2pguy on Jan 14, 2016 8:18:42 GMT
What is the benefit over a simple allocation system , which is roughly the same thing starting BEFORE the part gets listed? This appears to combine the worst features of FFF with those of prefunding/allocation... You have to sit at your PC 24/7, and you still don't get what you want. It depends what you mean by simple allocation. I can think of two variants off the top of my head: 1. Everybody pre-declares intention to invest. Any loan parts are split among all parties. If this was the case, people would just declare on all loans, meaning, given the loan part sizes, we would all just get a few pounds or pence. Making tracking holdings more tedious. 2. You declare intention to invest, and are added to a queue. But big investors joining the queue would completely choke off availability for smaller investors (unless your interest to buy expires after some amount of time). Both could be mitigated somewhat by restricting the total amount you can declare interest in, but the limits would have to be fairly generous as there is no way of knowing in advance what volumes of which loans will sell, and when. Happy to be proved wrong though, ideally the simpler the process the better.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jan 14, 2016 9:32:44 GMT
I was probably thinking of variant 1, with a lower limit of say £10 or £100, and some method to 'queue' so if you didn't get any this time, you'd be higher up the line next time. Yes, getting too many small bits would be an issue until/unless SS comes up with a way to combine fragments (which would be useful today already .. I'm sure some of us have too many small parts on many loans by now).
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Post by sunspot on Jan 14, 2016 9:49:40 GMT
What is the benefit over a simple allocation system There is none - but that's not what we have at the moment! Right now we have the wild west shootout - which might be fun for gamers, but for serious investors, is a complete joke (which is why bots wars broke out). SS should have tackled the root cause of the problem, but instead they have applied a sticking plaster. Incidentally, I frequently get TWO captchas to solve. You've hinted that mouse activity is used to make an initial guess as to who's real and who's a robot. This makes sense, because I use a trackpoint, which results in smooth movements - much like a robot might make!
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max
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Post by max on Jan 14, 2016 9:54:19 GMT
An interesting idea. Can you give an example (ie. using numbers) please? Sure, below is a timeline of what might happen with this approach. A variant of this is used to trade warrants on some asian stock exchanges. I know of one in particular that does this (although the name escapes me right now), which intends itself to be used by retail investors, but also has electronic interfaces which get used/abused by professional bots. // timeline expressed as T+n, where n is the number of seconds since time T.
// the names in [] represent the state of the market
// example where loan part is fully allocated:
T+0: [open] £500 loan part for sale
T+5: [auction-open] user A bids for £100, auction starts
T+6: [auction-open] user B bids for £200
T+12: [auction-open] user C bids for £150
T+14: [auction-open] user D bids for £100
T+15: [auction-closed] loan part disappears from market
T+15: [auction-closed] user E bids for £50, rejected as auction is closed
T+16: [matching] following (what I understand to be) SS pre-allocation rules:
- round 1: A=£100, B=£100, C=£100, D=£100 (remaining £100)
- round 2: A=£100, B=£150, C=£150, D=£100 (all funds allocated)
// example where loan part is partially allocated:
T+0: [open] £1000 loan part for sale
T+5: [auction-open] user A bids for £250, auction starts
T+14: [auction-open] user B bids for £250
T+15: [auction-closed] loan part disappears from market
T+16: [matching] following (what I understand to be) SS pre-allocation rules:
- round 1: A=£250, B=£250
T+17: [open] remaining £500 of loan part put back on the market
I left out the skewing of quantity by order of joining the auction as I'm not sure exactly how this works in practice (I just know it is done). This is the coolest idea I've seen so far. If I may add - indivisible loan parts (smaller than £1) could be allocated at random among the bidders instead of "splitting the atom" as in the AC approach. Unfortunately, I doubt savingstream will give it a go because of their KISS philosophy. However, KISS approach seems prone to be open to abuse by more sophisticated lenders with bots. I have a managed to build a decent portfolio in the past year investing with SS. My plan was to keep scaling it up, but current policies of allocating peanuts in the primary market and letting bots running free in the secondary market will prove it really difficult. IMO SS is one of the best games in town - but there are close alternatives out there and lenders' funds can move really fast - thanks to SM facilities. Other platforms have a good opportunity to seize unmet demand simply by replicating SS model.
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ablender
Member of DD Central
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Post by ablender on Jan 14, 2016 9:57:37 GMT
I do not think that the system proposed here diverts from the KISS philosophy. It might have some complexity to set up and code, but once it is done I see it as easy and simple on the users.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jan 14, 2016 11:50:46 GMT
But you still need to be sat at your PC 24/7, which seems like poor use of human resources.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Jan 14, 2016 12:01:21 GMT
But you still need to be sat at your PC 24/7, which seems like poor use of human resources. There are a lot of people who seemed to have been on the BOT threads for 24/7 over the last month. You weren't too far off that mark yourself GSV3MIaC !
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jan 14, 2016 16:04:56 GMT
You exaggerate slightly .. there has only BEEN a bot thread, poll etc since new year .. as soon as I come up with an automated forum responder, I shall be away walking some more.
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max
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Post by max on Jan 14, 2016 19:16:19 GMT
But you still need to be sat at your PC 24/7, which seems like poor use of human resources. No you don't. Many alerting apps out there and accessible to everyone. I suspect you perfectly know it.
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Post by p2pguy on Jan 14, 2016 19:18:01 GMT
But you still need to be sat at your PC 24/7, which seems like poor use of human resources. Yeah, I thought about that. But I couldn't come up with a satisfactory method for handling leave-it-and-wait like SM that did not have a fair amount of complexity - which would probably end up with confused/annoyed investors. Granted, I only mused over this on the train journey home from work, so I probably missed a few things  . What I was trying to achieve was to level the playing field, so while you are on the site at the same time as a bot, you've got a chance. However the bot does benefit from a 24 hour presence. I figured this would be sufficient, as the majority of secondary market activity I have seen tends to occur in the evenings, or around new loans, when people are more likely to be on.
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max
Posts: 75
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Post by max on Jan 14, 2016 19:40:23 GMT
But you still need to be sat at your PC 24/7, which seems like poor use of human resources. Yeah, I thought about that. But I couldn't come up with a satisfactory method for handling leave-it-and-wait like SM that did not have a fair amount of complexity - which would probably end up with confused/annoyed investors. Granted, I only mused over this on the train journey home from work, so I probably missed a few things . What I was trying to achieve was to level the playing field, so while you are on the site at the same time as a bot, you've got a chance. However the bot does benefit from a 24 hour presence. I figured this would be sufficient, as the majority of secondary market activity I have seen tends to occur in the evenings, or around new loans, when people are more likely to be on. IMO what you suggested would cripple the main feature of the bot system - being quickest than human. The rest - 24/7 surveillance, is trivial.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jan 14, 2016 20:47:45 GMT
But you still need to be sat at your PC 24/7, which seems like poor use of human resources. No you don't. Many alerting apps out there and accessible to everyone. I suspect you perfectly know it. OK, so if you want to be pedantic, "you have to be hovering over some internet connected device 24/7" .. but frankly your chances of beating the current 9-12 second purchase time from anything other than a (already alive and logged in) PC or touch-screen are slim to none, I doubt you could even get your ipad out of your pocket, much less solve the captcha.
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