|
|
Post by oktaeder on Jan 22, 2016 17:32:37 GMT
Can't see what the amounts have to do with my portfolio. I.g. Q4 15: 6,000 of 380,000€ recoverded?!
Got lots of defaults but I'm not a millionaire.
|
|
JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
Posts: 1,323 
Likes: 897
|
Post by JamesFrance on Jan 22, 2016 20:06:47 GMT
Maybe the whole loan book and not our loans?
|
|
|
|
Post by oktaeder on Jan 23, 2016 7:44:59 GMT
Interesting new statistics:  So half of the investors loose money at bondora? |
|
|
|
Post by aemilius on Jan 23, 2016 7:47:38 GMT
Overnight they changed the calculation of net return. The definition now is:
ANNUALIZED NET RETURN ON INVESTMENT
Average annualized net return after bad debts. This is key performance indicator you should compare with other investment opportunities such as deposit rates, bond yields or shares. Net return is calculated using XIRR (Extended Internal Rate of Return) and uses following data: time and amount of investments, time and amount of repayments and the portfolio's current net value. The portfolio's net value is the total of all current principal balances from which we have deducted all overdue principal payments. Hence only your portfolio's actual realised return has been taken into account in the calculation.
For most investors a depressing experience because many will discover a net return below zero. I myself was quite surprised to have risen in the ranks quite a lot. My net return is above 16% and that brings me close to the top 10%.
|
|
|
|
Post by aemilius on Jan 23, 2016 7:57:24 GMT
m  |
|
duck
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,864
Likes: 6,898
|
Post by duck on Jan 23, 2016 8:05:40 GMT
.... For most investors a depressing experience because many will discover a net return below zero. I myself was quite surprised to have risen in the ranks quite a lot. My net return is above 16% and that brings me close to the top 10%. Yes a lot of people are in for a shock ....... overnight I've gone from +17% to -2.90% and dropped to 7361 
Luckily I keep my own figures and know my actual return in Euros and £. I took a big 'hit' last month with a large batch of defaults (when the method was changed) and I've been withdrawing payments .... still on target to exit with a decent profit.
|
|
JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
Posts: 1,323
Likes: 897
|
Post by JamesFrance on Jan 23, 2016 8:06:27 GMT
Can't see what the amounts have to do with my portfolio. I.g. Q4 15: 6,000 of 380,000€ recoverded?! Got lots of defaults but I'm not a millionaire. Partel has given an explanation in his reply to a blog question So it is the total debt for the loans you are invested in rather than your loan parts.
|
|
|
|
Post by oktaeder on Jan 23, 2016 8:11:29 GMT
Pärtel tells a lot if the day is long... nonsense. I compared two totally different portfolios - exact the same picture.
|
|
JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
Posts: 1,323
Likes: 897
|
Post by JamesFrance on Jan 23, 2016 8:11:47 GMT
.... For most investors a depressing experience because many will discover a net return below zero. I myself was quite surprised to have risen in the ranks quite a lot. My net return is above 16% and that brings me close to the top 10%. Yes a lot of people are in for a shock ....... overnight I've gone from +17% to -2.90% and dropped to 7361
Luckily I keep my own figures and know my actual return in Euros and £. I took a big 'hit' last month with a large batch of defaults (when the method was changed) and I've been withdrawing payments .... still on target to exit with a decent profit.
I think they have got this all wrong today and it will soon be corrected. I now see -12% and near the lowest return.
|
|
|
|
Post by oktaeder on Jan 23, 2016 8:15:31 GMT
Overnight they changed the calculation of net return. The definition now is: ANNUALIZED NET RETURN ON INVESTMENT Average annualized net return after bad debts. This is key performance indicator you should compare with other investment opportunities such as deposit rates, bond yields or shares. Net return is calculated using XIRR (Extended Internal Rate of Return) and uses following data: time and amount of investments, time and amount of repayments and the portfolio's current net value. The portfolio's net value is the total of all current principal balances from which we have deducted all overdue principal payments. Hence only your portfolio's actual realised return has been taken into account in the calculation. For most investors a depressing experience because many will discover a net return below zero. I myself was quite surprised to have risen in the ranks quite a lot. My net return is above 16% and that brings me close to the top 10%. Is this realy a new defnition? "only your portfolio's actual realised return has been taken into account in the calculation" I got very close numbers und I used -50% for defaults and -25% for overdues in my calculations.
|
|
|
|
Post by oktaeder on Jan 23, 2016 9:08:03 GMT
Analysing the discussion in a german forum it seems to be a bug. Some people having as good as no defaults got a return below zero now.
|
|
|
|
Post by kissmyjazz on Jan 23, 2016 9:12:03 GMT
Holy smoke, my imaginary wealth has dropped faster than the Chinese stock exchange. It is still positive, somehow. ![]() Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by aemilius on Jan 23, 2016 9:15:26 GMT
Octaeder, you are right. They must have made an error in the calculation. I manage a simple second portfolio, which is easy to calculate. From there I can see that the calculation is not in line with the definition. Based on the definition the XIRR should be better.
|
|
|
|
Post by jabardolas on Jan 23, 2016 10:55:07 GMT
I don't know what to think of this. Is this somehow meaningful? Did I really loose 60% of my money at bondora?
|
|
james
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 955
|
Post by james on Jan 23, 2016 11:10:24 GMT
So half of the investors loose money at bondora? Looks like 42.3% without the time/amount filter, which does mean it's pushed upwards by new investors. Their XIRR is now below mine when calculated assuming 100% loss to bad debt and using actual times of deposits and withdrawals. Theirs is now about 3.3% and mine in Euros is about 16.8%, in Pounds about 8.9%. Maybe it's because I value overdue payments on non-defaulted loans at 100%? Hmmm, can't be just that, when I make the total of all overdue balances defaulted and 100% written of my own calculated XIRRs drop to 15.3% / 7.0%, still well above whatever they are doing. Maybe there's missed money hidden in loans counted as on time? Still seems hard for that to explain the difference so I think it's a problem in their calculation.
|
|
