mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 18, 2014 4:07:35 GMT
I can't say this surprises me. Some people might suggest that there's no point in putting in a bid now when a lender could wait until the loan is drawn down and the underwriters' loan parts are put up for sale in the Aftermarket. That's a valid point, but it all depends on how quickly you think those parts might be snapped up when they do become available. I suspect they'll be pretty popular and, since there will be less than £250k available, they might go quickly. The main reason for waiting would be a concern about 'dead' investment time, and how long it might be before the loan is drawn down. I'm hopeful that AC have learned from some of the long delays they've had, and taken action to reduce the probability of similar occurrences. And I'm hopeful that, since it's been clear for a few days that this loan was going to be underwritten and proceed, the borrowers are pressing forward to achieve drawdown as soon as they can. We'll find out shortly whether my optimism is justIified! I'm not so sure whether loan parts on this one will be available quickly after draw down or in ample numbers given the rate & length of loan! I can always be wrong  The critical question is whether or not the underwriters are playing the typical role. If they are, then their job is to ensure that the loan is funded and proceeds, and once the loan is drawn down then their job is done and they should exit as soon as takers for their loan parts can be found. On the other hand, I would think that they might consider 14% to be attractive, and that might entice them to hang onto their loan parts a bit longer than usual, particularly if their underwriting 'skills' aren't in big demand at the time. If, after testing demand with some small sales, they conclude that they could sell more parts easily, then they could decide to wait until the next underwriting request comes their way before selling on their Aberystwyth parts.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Mar 18, 2014 11:15:59 GMT
I'm not so sure whether loan parts on this one will be available quickly after draw down or in ample numbers given the rate & length of loan! I can always be wrong The critical question is whether or not the underwriters are playing the typical role. If they are, then their job is to ensure that the loan is funded and proceeds, and once the loan is drawn down then their job is done and they should exit as soon as takers for their loan parts can be found. On the other hand, I would think that they might consider 14% to be attractive, and that might entice them to hang onto their loan parts a bit longer than usual, particularly if their underwriting 'skills' aren't in big demand at the time. If, after testing demand with some small sales, they conclude that they could sell more parts easily, then they could decide to wait until the next underwriting request comes their way before selling on their Aberystwyth parts. And of course the U/Wers are the same as us they will want diversification too, assuming their positions aren't insured by AC. But who's to know these details? Only the U/W and maybe AC. I'm assuming that pure logic is driving us and the U/Wers, but for other places where bidding has happened and now no longer takes place, I noticed in me and many others it was mainly emotion that was driving bidding. It's emotion because people talk about enjoying it, I certainly did. In fact I bought too much of Aber... the logical excuse I gave myself was others will buy in the AM I'll only hold this a little while. The other reason was I'm helping a nice couple get back on their feet after going through an IVA. The best reason I come up with was I'm taking a position I will want in my portfolio in a years time. Are there any reasons I missed?
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Mar 18, 2014 11:26:58 GMT
The critical question is whether or not the underwriters are playing the typical role. If they are, then their job is to ensure that the loan is funded and proceeds, and once the loan is drawn down then their job is done and they should exit as soon as takers for their loan parts can be found. On the other hand, I would think that they might consider 14% to be attractive, and that might entice them to hang onto their loan parts a bit longer than usual, particularly if their underwriting 'skills' aren't in big demand at the time. If, after testing demand with some small sales, they conclude that they could sell more parts easily, then they could decide to wait until the next underwriting request comes their way before selling on their Aberystwyth parts. And of course the U/Wers are the same as us they will want diversification too, assuming their positions aren't insured by AC. But who's to know these details? Only the U/W and maybe AC. I'm assuming that pure logic is driving us and the U/Wers, but for other places where bidding has happened and now no longer takes place, I noticed in me and many others it was mainly emotion that was driving bidding. It's emotion because people talk about enjoying it, I certainly did. In fact I bought too much of Aber... the logical excuse I gave myself was others will buy in the AM I'll only hold this a little while. The other reason was I'm helping a nice couple get back on their feet after going through an IVA. The best reason I come up with was I'm taking a position I will want in my portfolio in a years time. Are there any reasons I missed? There are several reasons why folks choose to invest - far too many to mention here. I decided against Aber even though 14% is highly attractive as I think there could be a stretched out drawdown on this one plus plenty of opportunities on the aftermarket which earn from day one. Purely a personal view.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Mar 18, 2014 11:36:34 GMT
And of course the U/Wers are the same as us they will want diversification too, assuming their positions aren't insured by AC. But who's to know these details? Only the U/W and maybe AC. I'm assuming that pure logic is driving us and the U/Wers, but for other places where bidding has happened and now no longer takes place, I noticed in me and many others it was mainly emotion that was driving bidding. It's emotion because people talk about enjoying it, I certainly did. In fact I bought too much of Aber... the logical excuse I gave myself was others will buy in the AM I'll only hold this a little while. The other reason was I'm helping a nice couple get back on their feet after going through an IVA. The best reason I come up with was I'm taking a position I will want in my portfolio in a years time. Are there any reasons I missed? There are several reasons why folks choose to invest - far too many to mention here. I decided against Aber even though 14% is highly attractive as I think there could be a stretched out drawdown on this one plus plenty of opportunities on the aftermarket which earn from day one. Purely a personal view. So I take it you don't think this will last five years? They'll go to to another Lender or worse a Bank? Afterall a month in drawdown is nothing compered to several years.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Mar 18, 2014 15:13:13 GMT
There are several reasons why folks choose to invest - far too many to mention here. I decided against Aber even though 14% is highly attractive as I think there could be a stretched out drawdown on this one plus plenty of opportunities on the aftermarket which earn from day one. Purely a personal view. So I take it you don't think this will last five years? They'll go to to another Lender or worse a Bank? Afterall a month in drawdown is nothing compered to several years. Not at all. It may last 5 years and it may not. I frankly have no idea. But I do not believe drawdown will be within a month. I know AC are doing everything possible to minimise drawdown times but often third parties prove to be a stumbling block. With a relatively large underwriting amount considering the loan amount then I expect these may become available in the aftermarket.
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j
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Post by j on Mar 18, 2014 17:01:08 GMT
So I take it you don't think this will last five years? They'll go to to another Lender or worse a Bank? Afterall a month in drawdown is nothing compered to several years. Not at all. It may last 5 years and it may not. I frankly have no idea. But I do not believe drawdown will be within a month. I know AC are doing everything possible to minimise drawdown times but often third parties prove to be a stumbling block. With a relatively large underwriting amount considering the loan amount then I expect these may become available in the aftermarket. If late draw down comes to pass on this case, the new rules AC have built in would allow for some sort of compensation to lenders. One would hope so anyway
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Post by chris on Mar 18, 2014 17:54:53 GMT
If late draw down comes to pass on this case, the new rules AC have built in would allow for some sort of compensation to lenders. One would hope so anyway This is the case and I'm aware of at least one payment to lenders that's been made in the last few weeks due to drawdown delays on a loan listed after we updated our policies on this.
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Post by pepperpot on Mar 18, 2014 18:07:35 GMT
If late draw down comes to pass on this case, the new rules AC have built in would allow for some sort of compensation to lenders. One would hope so anyway This is the case and I'm aware of at least one payment to lenders that's been made in the last few weeks due to drawdown delays on a loan listed after we updated our policies on this. I presume there would be a distinction between funded and shadow bids with regard to any compensation, or would shadow bids receive it as well? Or hasn't it cropped up yet? I wouldn't mind getting compensation for just promising to fund a bid  , but it would be a tad unfair.
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Post by chris on Mar 18, 2014 21:48:20 GMT
Not entirely sure, I was just given a list of cashback amounts to push into the system that the admin team had worked out. I would hope they took shadow bids into account but I don't know for sure.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 18, 2014 21:57:05 GMT
If late draw down comes to pass on this case, the new rules AC have built in would allow for some sort of compensation to lenders. One would hope so anyway This is the case and I'm aware of at least one payment to lenders that's been made in the last few weeks due to drawdown delays on a loan listed after we updated our policies on this. Are you saying that you know that there are compensation arrangements for delayed drawdown for this loan? In many cases AC have stated the arrangements, and this has done a lot to reduce dissension in the ranks when there are drawdown delays. Nothing was stated in this case, so I wasn't sure that there was an agreement in place, especially knowing that the history of this particular loan request started about six months ago. It's always possible that a lot of the preliminary work already has been done and drawdown will happen quickly. But there's an existing bank involved, and that could slow things down. I personally think this one might take a while to draw down so I've limited my commitment. If I had known that there were compensation arrangements in place I might have bid more and that would have reduced the underwriting requirements -- and cost. I therefore would urge AC to make these arrangements public much earlier in the process. Don't wait until the lenders start to grumble. Let everyone know what the situation is while the auction is still open. You might find lenders more willing to bid as a result, and the net effect would be to reduce AC's underwriting costs. In my view, that's a win-win situation. I presume there would be a distinction between funded and shadow bids with regard to any compensation, or would shadow bids receive it as well? Or hasn't it cropped up yet? I wouldn't mind getting compensation for just promising to fund a bid , but it would be a tad unfair. Why is it unfair? Isn't this exactly what AC are paying underwriters to do? ISTM that shadow bidders are doing the same thing for AC that underwriters are, and ought to be similarly compensated.
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Post by Come_on_Grandad on Mar 18, 2014 22:46:39 GMT
This is the case and I'm aware of at least one payment to lenders that's been made in the last few weeks due to drawdown delays on a loan listed after we updated our policies on this. Are you saying that you know that there are compensation arrangements for delayed drawdown for this loan? In many cases AC have stated the arrangements, and this has done a lot to reduce dissension in the ranks when there are drawdown delays. Nothing was stated in this case, so I wasn't sure that there was an agreement in place, especially knowing that the history of this particular loan request started about six months ago. <snip> A commitment to cashback is in the Q&A for this loan, as follows: On 28th Feb 2014 at 16:21 z asked: "when are we anticipating draw down? And, if loan fails to fill, though I doubt it this time round, would underwriting be instigated to allow prompt draw down?" On 1st Mar 2014 at 09:13 Assetz Capital answered: "Drawdown at the end of March is anticipated, and any delays to this time frame on the part of borrower or his creditors will be covered by cashback to lenders. Underwriting could be used to fill the auction, depending on progress."
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andy2001
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Post by andy2001 on Mar 30, 2014 0:37:07 GMT
Are you saying that you know that there are compensation arrangements for delayed drawdown for this loan? In many cases AC have stated the arrangements, and this has done a lot to reduce dissension in the ranks when there are drawdown delays. Nothing was stated in this case, so I wasn't sure that there was an agreement in place, especially knowing that the history of this particular loan request started about six months ago. <snip> A commitment to cashback is in the Q&A for this loan, as follows: On 28th Feb 2014 at 16:21 z asked: "when are we anticipating draw down? And, if loan fails to fill, though I doubt it this time round, would underwriting be instigated to allow prompt draw down?" On 1st Mar 2014 at 09:13 Assetz Capital answered: "Drawdown at the end of March is anticipated, and any delays to this time frame on the part of borrower or his creditors will be covered by cashback to lenders. Underwriting could be used to fill the auction, depending on progress." I wonder why a search for "cashback" in the credit report comes up blank?
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Post by jevans4949 on Mar 30, 2014 1:11:26 GMT
I wonder why a search for "cashback" in the credit report comes up blank? Because at the time of publishing the credit report, the assumption would be that the drawdown would proceed without undue delay (in accordance with a timetable agreed with Assetz). The cashback would only apply if the timetable was unduly delayed.
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andy2001
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Post by andy2001 on Mar 30, 2014 1:25:26 GMT
I wonder why a search for "cashback" in the credit report comes up blank? Because at the time of publishing the credit report, the assumption would be that the drawdown would proceed without undue delay (in accordance with a timetable agreed with Assetz). The cashback would only apply if the timetable was unduly delayed. The Yorks**** loan has always had clear cashback info in there credit report.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 30, 2014 3:21:06 GMT
Are you saying that you know that there are compensation arrangements for delayed drawdown for this loan? A commitment to cashback is in the Q&A for this loan, as follows: On 28th Feb 2014 at 16:21 z asked: "when are we anticipating draw down? And, if loan fails to fill, though I doubt it this time round, would underwriting be instigated to allow prompt draw down?" On 1st Mar 2014 at 09:13 Assetz Capital answered: "Drawdown at the end of March is anticipated, and any delays to this time frame on the part of borrower or his creditors will be covered by cashback to lenders. Underwriting could be used to fill the auction, depending on progress." Inasmuch as Monday is the end of March, if AC haven't said anything by the end of the day then I guess that's the time to raise the issue in the Q&A and ask for an updated timing estimate, along with the details of the cashback arrangements.
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, but it would be a tad unfair.
