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Post by Financial Thing on Jan 23, 2016 16:18:41 GMT
On the pipeline camping site loan, the title "with planning" for me is very misleading as the land has no planning permission, yet. When I read the title I assumed the land had planning permission.
As always, read through the documents before you invest and buyer beware.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Jan 23, 2016 16:22:47 GMT
On the pipeline camping site loan, the title "with planning" for me is very misleading as the land has no planning permission, yet. When I read the title I assumed the land had planning permission. As always, read through the documents before you invest and buyer beware. To be fair, the valuation states "The property currently has planning and license consents for the existing touring / static caravan park use (planning reference 09/XXXX)", which is the basis on which the land has been valued for the loan. The proposed new planning application, if granted, is predicted to increase the value of the site from £2.66m to £5.75m
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Post by Financial Thing on Jan 23, 2016 16:25:17 GMT
On the pipeline camping site loan, the title "with planning" for me is very misleading as the land has no planning permission, yet. When I read the title I assumed the land had planning permission. As always, read through the documents before you invest and buyer beware. To be fair, the valuation states "The property currently has planning and license consents for the existing touring / static caravan park use (planning reference 09/XXXX)", which is the basis on which the land has been valued for the loan. The proposed new planning application, if granted, is predicted to increase the value of the site from £2.66m to £5.75m I understand Steve but for me, when I read the description, since we are dealing with bridging and development loans, I always assume "with planning" means plans for new development / redevelopment. Guess you can't make any assumptions.
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ben
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Post by ben on Jan 23, 2016 16:27:31 GMT
To be fair, the valuation states "The property currently has planning and license consents for the existing touring / static caravan park use (planning reference 09/XXXX)", which is the basis on which the land has been valued for the loan. The proposed new planning application, if granted, is predicted to increase the value of the site from £2.66m to £5.75m I understand Steve but for me, when I read the description, since we are dealing with bridging and development loans, I always assume "with planning" means plans for new development / redevelopment. Guess you can't make any assumptions. Its a bit misleading as I would have expected it to mean with planning permission to do what they wanted with the way it was stated on the loan not that it has planning permission to do something they have no intention of doing
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Jan 23, 2016 16:30:38 GMT
To be fair, the valuation states "The property currently has planning and license consents for the existing touring / static caravan park use (planning reference 09/XXXX)", which is the basis on which the land has been valued for the loan. The proposed new planning application, if granted, is predicted to increase the value of the site from £2.66m to £5.75m I understand Steve but for me, when I read the description, since we are dealing with bridging and development loans, I always assume "with planning" means plans for new development / redevelopment. Guess you can't make any assumptions. Perhaps it's a local thing but where I live we're surrounded by unlicensed camp-sites that operate for much of the summer, despite a notional council limit of a few weeks for unlicensed camping. A field around here that's described as a camp-site is likely worth little more than agricultural value. The few with planning consent to operate year-round would be worth a whole lot more.
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cooling_dude
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Post by cooling_dude on Jan 23, 2016 16:49:31 GMT
I'm not too concerned about this particular case; yes the text could be better, but the current land value is indicated and the LTV is good.
I do think however that this thread just highlights the importance to take time and read through all the paperwork of every loan we invest in. Personally if I find anything I feel uncomfortable I offload the loan on the SM
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Jan 23, 2016 16:57:04 GMT
I would suggest doing a local newspaper search on one of the directors, nothing to do with property valuations. This one is not for me. If it is who I think you are referring to, then he is no longer a director; he resigned 06 May 2010.
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Jan 23, 2016 16:58:36 GMT
I would suggest doing a local newspaper search on one of the directors, nothing to do with property valuations. This one is not for me. I'm with you.
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cooling_dude
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Post by cooling_dude on Jan 23, 2016 17:15:30 GMT
If it is who I think you are referring to, then he is no longer a director; he resigned 06 May 2010. He's back on the books as a current director (since 2013 if I remember correctly). You’re quite right. Strange as companycheck doesn’t show that he is a director again (I had to look on company house). I think I will join you in avoiding
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Jan 23, 2016 17:52:25 GMT
Updated pipeline, otherwise I will forget.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jan 23, 2016 18:04:16 GMT
He's back on the books as a current director (since 2013 if I remember correctly). You’re quite right. Strange as companycheck doesn’t show that he is a director again (I had to look on company house). I think I will join you in avoiding I went looking for info on the directors of the company that shown as the applicant on the valuation, and its parent company, but didn't find anything that caused any concern. Was I looking at the right companies? Does the Companies House WebCheck show a list of directors without having to pay a fee or have a subscription?
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Jan 23, 2016 18:21:30 GMT
You’re quite right. Strange as companycheck doesn’t show that he is a director again (I had to look on company house). I think I will join you in avoiding I went looking for info on the directors of the company that shown as the applicant on the valuation, and its parent company, but didn't find anything that caused any concern. Was I looking at the right companies? Does the Companies House WebCheck show a list of directors without having to pay a fee or have a subscription? Why don't you start googling the "directors of" address of the campsite. From there you will find some names. Then head forward. . . .. . at some point you will need to do a right turn.
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webwiz
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Post by webwiz on Jan 23, 2016 18:53:58 GMT
I am not overly concerned about the planning issue as regards LTV as the site has been primarily valued as a going concern capitalising the income at 5%. There is a lot of hope for the site but no hope has been rolled into the valuation which tends to make it attractive. What concerns me is why the borrower is applying for a loan now when the uplift in value through planning consent may come, if it comes, in just a few weeks. He will not need much money to prepare the application (unless .... but I cannot suggest that). It would be helpful if before the loan is released SS could give an indication of the purpose of the loan. Alternatively if the borrower is not currently the owner and the loan is to buy the property why doesn't the current owner wait a few weeks and see if the value doubles, instead of asking for only £500,000 if planning consent is obtained (and best of luck to whoever has to draft that clause).
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alanp
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Post by alanp on Jan 23, 2016 19:25:42 GMT
I went looking for info on the directors of the company that shown as the applicant on the valuation, and its parent company, but didn't find anything that caused any concern. Was I looking at the right companies? Does the Companies House WebCheck show a list of directors without having to pay a fee or have a subscription? Why don't you start googling the "directors of" address of the campsite. From there you will find some names. Then head forward. . . .. . at some point you will need to do a right turn. Done the right turn as you put it and have only found an accusation in effect, can't find any court documents or press reports that go further than that (although Google did omit some search results for a reasons it stated below the results list). Certainly making me think but they are not actually involved in the company that are shown as applying according to the valuation documents.
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Jan 23, 2016 19:29:33 GMT
Definitely I will not be rushing in.
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