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Post by Financial Thing on Jan 28, 2016 17:40:28 GMT
I have to admit that when I saw "Regulated by the FCA" on a platforms website it made me feel a bit better about investing. After further research, it seems to me that FCA regulation gives an extremely false sense of safety. From Wikipedia / FCA's website: "The Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) is a financial regulatory body in the United Kingdom, but operates independently of the UK government, and is financed by charging fees to members of the financial services industry"
Also some of the leaders are ex and future investment banker executives (Goldman Sachs ). So does having FCA permission really make P2P any safer? I think not at all. If the authority is funded by its members and more like a privately run system, then I believe its members control the authority (seen this story play out before). Just something to stir the mind.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jan 28, 2016 18:17:05 GMT
I have no qualms about the FCA's funding model, nor about the fact that some of its leaders were bankers. The FCA could do with more experienced people from the industry, not fewer.
If FCA regulation of P2P has limited value, it is not for the reasons that you suggest but because the scope of the FCA's P2P regulation is narrow but the compliance costs for the platforms (which are all pretty small businesses) are high. This will ultimately mean lower rates for us. The cost/benefit is unclear.
On the whole, though, I think it is a necessary evil and I'd rather have FCA regulation than not have it. There are some popular platforms that I'd not consider putting money into until I know that they have passed muster with the FCA.
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Post by Financial Thing on Jan 28, 2016 18:49:51 GMT
I have no qualms about the FCA's funding model, nor about the fact that some of its leaders were bankers. The FCA could do with more experienced people from the industry, not fewer. If FCA regulation of P2P has limited value, it is not for the reasons that you suggest but because the scope of the FCA's P2P regulation is narrow but the compliance costs for the platforms (which are all pretty small businesses) are high. This will ultimately mean lower rates for us. The cost/benefit is unclear. On the whole, though, I think it is a necessary evil and I'd rather have FCA regulation than not have it. There are some popular platforms that I'd not consider putting money into until I know that they have passed muster with the FCA. Certainly good points Mr Pikestaff. I would ask however just what does passing muster with the FCA achieve? We have seen countless times within the banking and financial industry that a thumbs up from a compliance authority can be achieved through numerous ways (often times a quick backhander) and quite frankly for me doesn't hold much weight. Having experienced bankers leading the FCA puts the financial businesses interests first and not the consumers. When money and banking is involved, profit will always come before consumer interests.
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Post by reeknralf on Jan 28, 2016 19:38:18 GMT
It's neither here nor there, that some dodgy firms get FCA approval when they don't deserve it. Nothing's perfect. The question is, does an FCA regulated platforms fail or swindle their lenders less often than a non-FCA regulated platform? Or by extension, as pikestaff intimates, do the former or the latter, give higher returns to lenders?
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mikeh
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Post by mikeh on Jan 31, 2016 13:22:35 GMT
Aren't all UK P2P lending platforms now subject to FCA regulation?
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jan 31, 2016 14:16:28 GMT
Aren't all UK P2P lending platforms now subject to FCA regulation? At the moment, with one or two exceptions among the newest platforms, they are operating with interim permission and working toward full authorisation. Only when they have full authorisation will we know that they have passed muster with the FCA.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Jan 31, 2016 14:54:52 GMT
I just hope I am not in the first platform which has to announce it has been denied full authorisation. It will be instructive what happens there subsequently.
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Post by chris on Jan 31, 2016 17:43:29 GMT
Aren't all UK P2P lending platforms now subject to FCA regulation? We're all subject to the regulation but it's not black and white "you can do this, you can't do that", more a set of rules and guidelines that have scope for interpretation. At this stage the FCA have yet to review every business and having the interim permissions doesn't yet mean much. AC as a platform have answered a few questions via email / letter and have had one thematic visit from the FCA (that I'm aware of). Other platforms may have had more interaction or possibly less. Whilst the regulations apply and the FCA can fine, shut down, or otherwise punish platforms in retrospect if they're later found to have done wrong, and of course we have to operate within the law, the FCA has not as of yet inspected each business in detail and declared their operating practices to be sufficient. Thus having the interim permission badge in and of itself doesn't really mean lenders can be sure the company is being run in the way that it should be. That changes to a large degree with full permissions. Each business is reviewed in detail and over an extended period with the FCA getting to know as much as they can about the platform and the way it operates. We're at the beginning of that process but with several staff that have previously been through regulatory processes with the FCA (or FSA as it was at the time) we're expecting a tough and thorough examination, and I'd personally be surprised if every last platform made it through without having to make any major changes or possibly even being temporarily shut down whilst something major is corrected. There are so many interpretations of core rules in use within the industry that either everyone else has far deeper pockets and cleverer advisers than we do, or the FCA will need to be uncharacteristically loose in their interpretation of the rules, or someone somewhere has misinterpreted and the FCA will do what's needed to set them straight. Barring willful fraud by a platform that sets out to deceive the FCA, once we're operating under full permissions it should mean that each remaining platform is trust worthy and likely to not be taking operational risks with your money. Lenders will still need to assess the individual offerings to find those that align to their values and risk appetite.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 31, 2016 18:11:41 GMT
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 31, 2016 20:10:09 GMT
I just hope I am not in the first platform which has to announce it has been denied full authorisation. It will be instructive what happens there subsequently. Would they announce it? Or would they just quietly address the issues that had caused the denial, then re-apply, THEN shout about how they've been authorised...
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Jan 31, 2016 20:44:46 GMT
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 31, 2016 21:23:30 GMT
Given, like them, you've turned up late to the party (see post two up from yours), quite possibly! He said on his appointment that's waht he was going to do. He's been removed because he always missed
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jan 31, 2016 23:16:25 GMT
...He's been removed because he always missed Or was shooting at the wrong target.
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p2pmaster
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Post by p2pmaster on Feb 3, 2016 13:53:30 GMT
Bondora case proves that FCA regulation is will not save investors. Already a fact.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Feb 3, 2016 14:42:21 GMT
Bondora don't have full authorisation yet. Until they have, we won't know that their systems and processes meet the FCA's requirements. Based on what I've read on this forum, I'd be surprised if they ever get it, but I could be wrong.
I accept that full authorisation won't be a guarantee of anything - especially not of loan quality. But I'd still rather have it than not.
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