jayjay
Member of DD Central
Posts: 264 
Likes: 116
|
Post by jayjay on May 31, 2016 13:40:23 GMT
I can trump that! I have three pages covering 10 separate loans. I suspect they are the same (plus one). I think we get Bilston to add to them tomorrow.
|
|
grahamg
Member of DD Central
Posts: 220
Likes: 62
|
Post by grahamg on May 31, 2016 15:11:48 GMT
/Mod hat off I always planned to unload these when there are 2 payments left, if I wanted the money at some particular time (or even if I just don't want to risk the 'rather variable' Floating Charges approach to interest on overrunning property loans). If you leave it until only one payment is left, or if the RB gets removed, you are locked in for the duration. I reckon 0.25% loss (to unload at par, which almost always works, except for the really large ones) was well worth it. Lesson learned on selling up. I don't hold SS loans until the end and avoid FS property as they don't even have the interest up front. Not sure why i ignored selling up the FC loans! Maybe because i'm allowing it to run down of its own accord.
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on May 31, 2016 15:25:32 GMT
I can trump that! I have three pages covering 10 separate loans. I suspect they are the same (plus one). I think we get Bilston to add to them tomorrow. The second Croydon will join its mate tomorrow. But please not Bilston as well. Surely something has to pay up? It seems all the property loans must be linked in some secret way.
|
|
|
|
Post by GSV3MIaC on May 31, 2016 18:10:32 GMT
I was tempted to hang on to those 12% loans and expected not only to avoid the 0.25% fee but also to gain the balance of a month from early repayment. 12% 'secured' (ho-hum) parts would probably have flown off the shelves at a small markup, although not to the par/autobid buyers. Those I'd probably have listed even sooner, at +1% or something, and run it down to hit 0% with 2 payments (and 1 day) left. The issue (with FC at least) is the impossibility of replacing them with anything similarly worthwhile - but then that'll still be an issue when they hit day0 (or whenever they actually repay). As for linkage .. well yes, they're all linked to the property market, which tends to move as a lump, so if one won't sell, or overruns because of snow on the line, there's a good chance the others will have a similar problem..
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on May 31, 2016 19:39:13 GMT
I meant that there are too many over-runs currently for con-incidence, and it is not the property market. There could be some other common mode factor more closely related to the funding circle experience.
|
|
|
|
Post by GSV3MIaC on May 31, 2016 20:25:38 GMT
Well it could be they have been trimming back the loan length to allow less margin. Given that interest is retained up front, borrowers are not going to be delighted to have a lot of 'slack' built in (and interest retained for it) if they can get away with less. They really need an AC-style agreed penalty rate for overruns, which puts some incentive back into not under-calling the term ("you can have 12 months at 10%, but it's 13% if you overrun, or you can have 18 months at 10%, and can pay back early with no penalty (but we want the 10% interest up front in either case). Now pick").
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on May 31, 2016 21:13:04 GMT
Yes they may have been cutting back the time margin or float, especially on the short term financing loans which are expected to refinance rather than get paid back from house sales. One problem with the margin is that the interest for the extra time is borrowed and that pushes up the LTV artificially, compared with a true loan with interest rolled up. This increased LTV may require a higher interest rate, more borrowing, even higher LTV iteratively. Also I reckon the borrowers know that they can push these dates easily without penalty, because FC will move heaven and earth to avoid the first property default - which will be bad PR and would scare the punters, and future borrowers. They do need a penalty interest rate for overruns on loans for projects, but they want to keep SME and property as close as possible so they can sell the loans as the same deal.
Actually I am happy with the 12% A loans, but would rather they refinanced them properly and I can buy tradeable loans, rather than be locked into overruns. Not what we signed up for.
|
|
andyp
Stubborn Yorkshireman from the rhubarb triangle
Posts: 150
Likes: 115
|
Post by andyp on Jun 1, 2016 10:38:15 GMT
Grahamg's 9 late property loans is a large number - but is it a record? Can anyone do better? or worse I suppose. Different tranches of the same project count, and late means not repaid on the due date and still outstanding in whole or part. I can top that with 13 late loans if you include Croydon which is due today but not paid, without Croydon it would be 12. I don't feel worried about getting repaid, I still think that property loans are far safer than flaky C/D/E supported by little more than an Andrex Director guarantee. I'm running an annualised return after fees of 10.5% with no losses. What does brass me off is that FC do not normally impose any penalty. They should just up the interest rate by 20% (10% to 12%, not 10% to 30%!), instead they seem happy to make excuses for borrowers bad planning/organisation/deliberate actions.
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on Jun 1, 2016 11:04:49 GMT
Strictly speaking Croydon has until midnight, but we have been told it's not going to pay - so that's all right then.
But do you not have Bilston refinance? Due today and processing without a note, so expected to pay. "While there is a good likelihood that the original development loan would indeed be able to repay in Jan 2016, we deem it prudent to extend the term of the loan via this re-finance facility in order to accommodate further unforeseen delays (unlikely)."
If that fails, without any connected loans, then things are going well beyond a joke. South London at 49 days late!
|
|
andyp
Stubborn Yorkshireman from the rhubarb triangle
Posts: 150
Likes: 115
|
Post by andyp on Jun 1, 2016 20:46:03 GMT
I seem to have avoided Bilston for some reason.
South London is not exceptional at that length, in my bakers dozen I have
Hammersmith 3 (11534) — 49 days late,
South London (12170) — 49 days late,
London 1 (14978) — 49 days late,
London 2 (15010) — 48 days late,
It's Hammersmith that really pees me off, 7.5% interest extended by FC for two months with no consultation or penalty to borrower. According to the last note (1st April!!) it is expected to repay tomorrow. What do we think the chances of that happening are?
|
|
kt
Posts: 105 
Likes: 39
|
Post by kt on Jun 1, 2016 22:13:14 GMT
According to the last note (1st April!!) it is expected to repay tomorrow. What do we think the chances of that happening are? Slim to none. Let us know 
|
|
mightyoak
"Always a chance of rain at times"
Posts: 17
Likes: 6
|
Post by mightyoak on Jun 2, 2016 11:43:05 GMT
And so ... is this affecting anyone's buying strategy? Other than selling 2 months early, the only other option is to avoid buying them in the first place. Would that make FC sit up? I've just noted there will be further delays on Croydon. Pity - I could have used that cash. But generally not too much harm done while interest continues to be paid and no property defaults.
Happy days.
|
|
SteveT
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,875
Likes: 7,924
|
Post by SteveT on Jun 2, 2016 12:08:59 GMT
And so ... is this affecting anyone's buying strategy? Other than selling 2 months early, the only other option is to avoid buying them in the first place. Would that make FC sit up? I've just noted there will be further delays on Croydon. Pity - I could have used that cash. But generally not too much harm done while interest continues to be paid and no property defaults. Happy days. I stopped buying them the moment that cashback disappeared. All my older cashback-stripped Fancy Crenelations parts were sold long ago. There are plenty of better property-back loans on other platforms, with good SM liquidity and no selling fees.
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on Jun 2, 2016 14:33:28 GMT
... But generally not too much harm done while interest continues to be paid and no property defaults. Happy days. But interest is not being paid. Even the cash that was borrowed from you to pay the last scheduled payment is being kept by FC in a client account. Late interest is being accrued, and while locked in you can buy as much with accrued interest at net 6.5% as with net 11%. Everything is rolled up for the borrower, and I rather think they are rolled up laughing.
|
|
ptr120
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,202
Likes: 1,350
|
Post by ptr120 on Jun 3, 2016 16:59:42 GMT
In the other place there is a vague indication that higher (penalty rates) will be introduced for late running property loans: We understand the inconvenience caused when your money is tied up in a development for a significant amount of time, so moving forward we will look to introduce a higher interest on certain loans that run late for a significant amount of time. We will inform investors in the loan comments when this happens. In typical FC style, there is no indication of: - How late loans would need to run
How much higher the interest would be - If interest distributions would be made in the interim
- When such a policy will be implemented
- If this would apply to loans already running late, or only new loans
- ......
|
|
