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Post by GSV3MIaC on Feb 17, 2016 11:21:19 GMT
Because there is no penalty for gaming the %-allocation prefunding market by asking for 10x, 20x or 50x what you really want .. so people do/did, safe in the knowledge they (or SS) can resell it on the SM.
Which is why some of us favour the bottom up prefunding model where there is absolutely no incentive to ask for more than you want.
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Post by xyon100 on Feb 17, 2016 11:24:11 GMT
Because there is no penalty for gaming the %-allocation prefunding market by asking for 10x, 20x or 50x what you really want .. so people do/did, safe in the knowledge they (or SS) can resell it on the SM. Which is why some of us favour the bottom up prefunding model where there is absolutely no incentive to ask for more than you want. Guilty as charged, though I only got more than I wanted in the tranche D. And now it allows me to lose some of the older loans I am less comfortable with. Really, given the likes of you-know-who that makes the secondary market impossible to buy on at times, we have to do what we can do as long as the platform allows it.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Feb 17, 2016 11:24:24 GMT
Because there is no penalty for gaming the %-allocation prefunding market by asking for 10x, 20x or 50x what you really want .. so people do/did, safe in the knowledge they (or SS) can resell it on the SM. Which is why some of us favour the bottom up prefunding model where there is absolutely no incentive to ask for more than you want. This savingstream, this.
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t
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Post by t on Feb 17, 2016 11:24:41 GMT
There has been a hope that big loans like this would free up the secondary market somewhat - given that we have got so little of this big one then that is clearly not going to happen. I think SS's standard 12% is sticking out like a sore thumb as simply being too generous. It'd be great to have a debate - without rancour - whether we'd be better off with a lower percentage (if that mean't a greater volume of lending opportunities as SS became more competitive to borrowers). SS lending is becoming about as accessible as housing is to first time buyers..... Jack P There has been few mill paid back so it's no surprise it all got eaten quite easy next 2 big ones may be a different story
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Post by katimo on Feb 17, 2016 11:52:39 GMT
I also received the following percentages
Tranche A (PBL77) is live - 09:51 am
> I got 46% from what I requested on the pre-funding
Tranche B (PBL78) is live - 10:13 am
> I got 22.5% from what I requested on the pre-funding
Tranche C (PBL79) is live - 10:30 am
> I got 19.5% from what I requested on the pre-funding
Tranche D (PBL80) has just gone live - 10:52 am
> I got 40.5% from what I requested on the pre-funding
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Feb 17, 2016 12:40:55 GMT
Because there is no penalty for gaming the %-allocation prefunding market by asking for 10x, 20x or 50x what you really want .. so people do/did... Isn't there still a pre-funding limit of £10k or your account size, whichever is the larger? In that case, it should be difficult to ask for 50x what you really want unless you really want a small amount, or have a massive account. Perhaps SS need to reduce the alternative maximum to something like half your account size to stop the 50x gaming as those with huge accounts still are able to hoover up massive amounts at drawdown. I don't suppose today's loan being divided into four parts helped, either, as it meant the pre-funding limit actually was £40k or 4x your account size.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Feb 17, 2016 13:10:17 GMT
Assuming you are already (equally spread) in the 50+ live loans, then bidding 50x what you want would be about the same as your account size .. no problem. And as you say, 4x leverage on this one.
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Feb 17, 2016 13:14:34 GMT
There has been a hope that big loans like this would free up the secondary market somewhat - given that we have got so little of this big one then that is clearly not going to happen. I think SS's standard 12% is sticking out like a sore thumb as simply being too generous. It'd be great to have a debate - without rancour - whether we'd be better off with a lower percentage (if that mean't a greater volume of lending opportunities as SS became more competitive to borrowers). SS lending is becoming about as accessible as housing is to first time buyers..... Jack P If you are happy with lower interest rate may I direct you to FC or RS or any of the other platforms which offer such low rates.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2016 13:26:48 GMT
There has been a hope that big loans like this would free up the secondary market somewhat - given that we have got so little of this big one then that is clearly not going to happen. I think SS's standard 12% is sticking out like a sore thumb as simply being too generous. It'd be great to have a debate - without rancour - whether we'd be better off with a lower percentage (if that mean't a greater volume of lending opportunities as SS became more competitive to borrowers). SS lending is becoming about as accessible as housing is to first time buyers..... Jack P Jack, I am not sure I understand your concerns. If you want to have more chances, go to MT (which is progressively increasing their offerings) or FC (where you can find PLENTY of offers both on the primary and secondary markets with asset-security house backing). Of course the SS system can be simplified/automated a bit more, but the attractive point is the interest they offer... That should not change!
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 17, 2016 13:51:57 GMT
22.5% and 19% of a couple of loans that're shrapnel over a mill? I'm surprised it wasn't smaller, tbh.
Or, look at it differently - a £6.6m loan just got massively oversubscribed - and what's hit the SM hasn't lingered. The demand was really there. Wow.
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Post by jackpease on Feb 17, 2016 14:12:48 GMT
There has been a hope that big loans like this would free up the secondary market somewhat - given that we have got so little of this big one then that is clearly not going to happen. I think SS's standard 12% is sticking out like a sore thumb as simply being too generous. It'd be great to have a debate - without rancour - whether we'd be better off with a lower percentage (if that mean't a greater volume of lending opportunities as SS became more competitive to borrowers). SS lending is becoming about as accessible as housing is to first time buyers..... Jack P Jack, I am not sure I understand your concerns. If you want to have more chances, go to MT (which is progressively increasing their offerings) or FC (where you can find PLENTY of offers both on the primary and secondary markets with asset-security house backing). Of course the SS system can be simplified/automated a bit more, but the attractive point is the interest they offer... That should not change! Okay let me explain in more detail.... and since i posted this i see there's increasing frustrations in another thread I am an early P2P participant and been with most platforms and been through the tiresomely inevitable cycle of enthusiasm for a platform/seeing it becoming overpopular/watching it go sour with a barrage of criticism/the platform then morphing into something entirely different which i don't want to be part of. I liked SS in the early days when you could buy and sell just as you can on many other platforms today (FC/FK/Rebs etc etc) - you buy what you want and sell what you want. No gaming. I like the simplicity of SS and its popularity is threatening that in the same way as it did Assetz. The 12% SS rate is clearly a gift horse and there is a 'gold rush' - it's absolutely clear that newcomers are blissfully unaware that they may not be able to sell what they are grabbing and they will get zero notice (eg if there is some shock eg a default here or elsewhere) and they will get caught short - and by definition SS will get caught short (people owing it money) - then we all get caught in the mess. I reckon if there is a shock on SS or elsewhere and people lose money the clarion call will be 'nobody told us it wasn't protected' (Read The Times Leader today!) and we'll all be getting those ambulance chaser calls 'did you buy P2P loans - you may be in line for compensation'. All of us P2P investors will end up paying through the nose for regulation because some P2P platforms offer a great platform with rates that are demonstrably generous (otherwise why is there a gold rush) which suck people in who overextend themselves. Why dont' I invest elsewhere? I do but i'd rather do it on SS. I'd happily accept 10% to get a decent slice of two or three times the volume of loans rather than lovely 12% loans with tiny allocations. I no longer believe the forthcoming large pipeline loans will break this cycle. I just think its all too good to be true and will end in tears for those that overindulge and muck it up for the rest of us Jack P
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Feb 17, 2016 18:02:18 GMT
So it seems that big hitters are still around. They have not taken their funds away as they said they might have to do if the bottom-up for <£1m will be implemented.
Did they indeed say that? Surely you were misinformed?
I've been part of that discussion myself - so no misinformation - first hand information.
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Feb 17, 2016 18:07:58 GMT
Jack, I am not sure I understand your concerns. If you want to have more chances, go to MT (which is progressively increasing their offerings) or FC (where you can find PLENTY of offers both on the primary and secondary markets with asset-security house backing). Of course the SS system can be simplified/automated a bit more, but the attractive point is the interest they offer... That should not change! Okay let me explain in more detail.... and since i posted this i see there's increasing frustrations in another thread I am an early P2P participant and been with most platforms and been through the tiresomely inevitable cycle of enthusiasm for a platform/seeing it becoming overpopular/watching it go sour with a barrage of criticism/the platform then morphing into something entirely different which i don't want to be part of. I liked SS in the early days when you could buy and sell just as you can on many other platforms today (FC/FK/Rebs etc etc) - you buy what you want and sell what you want. No gaming. I like the simplicity of SS and its popularity is threatening that in the same way as it did Assetz. The 12% SS rate is clearly a gift horse and there is a 'gold rush' - it's absolutely clear that newcomers are blissfully unaware that they may not be able to sell what they are grabbing and they will get zero notice (eg if there is some shock eg a default here or elsewhere) and they will get caught short - and by definition SS will get caught short (people owing it money) - then we all get caught in the mess. I reckon if there is a shock on SS or elsewhere and people lose money the clarion call will be 'nobody told us it wasn't protected' (Read The Times Leader today!) and we'll all be getting those ambulance chaser calls 'did you buy P2P loans - you may be in line for compensation'. All of us P2P investors will end up paying through the nose for regulation because some P2P platforms offer a great platform with rates that are demonstrably generous (otherwise why is there a gold rush) which suck people in who overextend themselves. Why dont' I invest elsewhere? I do but i'd rather do it on SS. I'd happily accept 10% to get a decent slice of two or three times the volume of loans rather than lovely 12% loans with tiny allocations. I no longer believe the forthcoming large pipeline loans will break this cycle. I just think its all too good to be true and will end in tears for those that overindulge and muck it up for the rest of us Jack P What regulations are you referring to? Why would anyone be eligible for compensation? What "nobody told us it wasn't protected" protection are you referring to in this quote?
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Post by Butch Cassidy on Feb 17, 2016 18:22:51 GMT
Jack, I am not sure I understand your concerns. If you want to have more chances, go to MT (which is progressively increasing their offerings) or FC (where you can find PLENTY of offers both on the primary and secondary markets with asset-security house backing). Of course the SS system can be simplified/automated a bit more, but the attractive point is the interest they offer... That should not change! Okay let me explain in more detail.... and since i posted this i see there's increasing frustrations in another thread I am an early P2P participant and been with most platforms and been through the tiresomely inevitable cycle of enthusiasm for a platform/seeing it becoming overpopular/watching it go sour with a barrage of criticism/the platform then morphing into something entirely different which i don't want to be part of. I liked SS in the early days when you could buy and sell just as you can on many other platforms today (FC/FK/Rebs etc etc) - you buy what you want and sell what you want. No gaming. I like the simplicity of SS and its popularity is threatening that in the same way as it did Assetz. The 12% SS rate is clearly a gift horse and there is a 'gold rush' - it's absolutely clear that newcomers are blissfully unaware that they may not be able to sell what they are grabbing and they will get zero notice (eg if there is some shock eg a default here or elsewhere) and they will get caught short - and by definition SS will get caught short (people owing it money) - then we all get caught in the mess. I reckon if there is a shock on SS or elsewhere and people lose money the clarion call will be 'nobody told us it wasn't protected' (Read The Times Leader today!) and we'll all be getting those ambulance chaser calls 'did you buy P2P loans - you may be in line for compensation'. All of us P2P investors will end up paying through the nose for regulation because some P2P platforms offer a great platform with rates that are demonstrably generous (otherwise why is there a gold rush) which suck people in who overextend themselves. Why dont' I invest elsewhere? I do but i'd rather do it on SS. I'd happily accept 10% to get a decent slice of two or three times the volume of loans rather than lovely 12% loans with tiny allocations. I no longer believe the forthcoming large pipeline loans will break this cycle. I just think its all too good to be true and will end in tears for those that overindulge and muck it up for the rest of us Jack P I have some sympathy with your argument but it is really platform based (or rather platform size/maturity); rates have fallen at FC, AC etc because they have grown large/popular (with the associated extra costs of more staff, compliance, IT etc) & need to keep extra margin to fund this but can also now rely on fund inertia, partly due to gaining a reputation partly due to lazy lenders, to pass off loans at lower rates. They have/are being replaced by new kids on the block such as SS, MT, Abi who are leaner, keener & wanting to grow so can offer higher/better rates. Some of these will prosper & grow (& may in future drop rates as FC & AC have) but some will over stretch & fail & I think you make a strong point that regulation will become more onerous & costly both when this occurs but also as the industry as a whole grows & becomes more significant. That is why gaining critical mass as a platform is key now & over the next few years, so you can benefit as the barriers to entry are raised. So if rates fall on your chosen platform it is better to switch to a new platform AS LONG AS IT IS ONE THAT WILL SURVIVE (& there is the dilemma) 
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beechside
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Post by beechside on Feb 17, 2016 18:55:19 GMT
I think SS's standard 12% is sticking out like a sore thumb as simply being too generous. It'd be great to have a debate - without rancour - whether we'd be better off with a lower percentage My favorite beach is too crowded in the summer. The solution is to have less sunshine. Okay, I'm being slightly tongue in cheek but it's logically in the same category. Since reducing the interest rate would mean less activity on both primary and secondary markets, I don't see how reducing interest rates would work. Primary market is designed for buyers. The secondary market is designed for sellers. Strikes me they both work pretty well. SS appear to be able to get good quality loans at 12% so let's stay there and see how the next three months pan out. There are many other things that might effect a change. Stock markets, Brexit, oil prices...
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