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Post by thickmick on Feb 26, 2016 22:53:31 GMT
Hi
I've only recently begun using SS and like the simplicity of it and the high % earned. I was reading through the upcoming loan for the Scottish property and I began to think about being a lender and how it might effect me ethically.
I'm not saying it is the case but the Scottish property is in my mind a good example. It seems to be a property with a certain amount of local and historic importance if not cultural significance. I'm not sure what the purchaser is wanting to do with the property, but if they wanted to build a wind farm, or use the land to farm something which was controversial say using the land on the coast to base a salmon farm or whatever, even drilling for oil or fracking or as is the case across in N. Ireland under sea excavation to pump in gas for storage which I know is very controversial and likely to cause untold environmental damage which of course the company would try to play down or deny.
My question is this.... Would a 12% safe return be your only concern or would you think twice depending on the purpose of the loan?
Just to be clear. I'm not saying the Scottish property is for any purpose like this, I'm just posing a hypothetical question.
Regards
Mike
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ben
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Post by ben on Feb 26, 2016 22:55:52 GMT
Hi I've only recently begun using SS and like the simplicity of it and the high % earned. I was reading through the upcoming loan for the Scottish property and I began to think about being a lender and how it might effect me ethically. I'm not saying it is the case but the Scottish property is in my mind a good example. It seems to be a property with a certain amount of local and historic importance if not cultural significance. I'm not sure what the purchaser is wanting to do with the property, but if they wanted to build a wind farm, or use the land to farm something which was controversial say using the land on the coast to base a salmon farm or whatever, even drilling for oil or fracking or as is the case across in N. Ireland under sea excavation to pump in gas for storage which I know is very controversial and likely to cause untold environmental damage which of course the company would try to play down or deny. My question is this.... Would a 12% safe return be your only concern or would you think twice depending on the purpose of the loan? Just to be clear. I'm not saying the Scottish property is for any purpose like this, I'm just posing a hypothetical question. Regards Mike If it was a loan for something I was not happy with then I would not lend, but that being said there is probably not that much that I am against
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Feb 26, 2016 23:10:59 GMT
Hi I've only recently begun using SS and like the simplicity of it and the high % earned. I was reading through the upcoming loan for the Scottish property and I began to think about being a lender and how it might effect me ethically. I'm not saying it is the case but the Scottish property is in my mind a good example. It seems to be a property with a certain amount of local and historic importance if not cultural significance. I'm not sure what the purchaser is wanting to do with the property, but if they wanted to build a wind farm, or use the land to farm something which was controversial say using the land on the coast to base a salmon farm or whatever, even drilling for oil or fracking or as is the case across in N. Ireland under sea excavation to pump in gas for storage which I know is very controversial and likely to cause untold environmental damage which of course the company would try to play down or deny. My question is this.... Would a 12% safe return be your only concern or would you think twice depending on the purpose of the loan? Just to be clear. I'm not saying the Scottish property is for any purpose like this, I'm just posing a hypothetical question. Regards Mike It's a good point, but a very hard question to answer. We do have to be careful; there is a loan in the pipeline where we all got carried away because we found out (one of) the owner of the security had been to trial for an unsavoury matter. Several investors outright refused to lend and others pointed out that the person in question was never convicted of anything. In the end, it turned out the loan was wasn't even for the current owner of the security, it was in fact for the person buying the security. My point is; if you find a loan is against your ethics, then by all means avoid that loan. However, be very careful posting your opinions on these forums, as things can soon escalate Do your own DD, and if you want to include your own ethics with that (whatever that may be), then by all means do so. I know I do.
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Post by thickmick on Feb 26, 2016 23:38:13 GMT
I would suggest that ethics is not high on the list of priorities of most people seeking a 12% return. You will probably get howls of protest in return. ...but only very recently a loan to a convicted fraudster went through over subscribed and there's another one pending, which ethically could be worse. Given your reservations about the Scottish estate, I think you might need to harden up your feelings about what is ethical. I don't actually have any reservations regarding the Scottish property. I was just posing the question. I see nothing about the Scottish property that cause me any problems. For my part, I would not invest in something I didn't feel happy about (ethically speaking), however I'm not too sure that I would often be aware about some issues. I think that this property is possibly a location I could almost see from where I live in N Ireland, if I found out the borrower was wanting to build a golf resort (Mr Trump anyone) and the locals were dead set against it. I don't think I would invest. Not sure if I'd be happy investing in someone known for fraud or whatever, but that may be more to do with risk of them doing it again and caausing me to lose my money. Mike
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Feb 26, 2016 23:49:44 GMT
There are at least two current loans which I suspect some people would have ethical issues of the alledged activities of the probable borrower if they were aware of it, based on a previous discusion and press coverage about the probable borrower. I was invested in both & only sold out when the extensions ended
Personally, I have issues with loans for green energy projects so avoid them I have no issues with fracking or planes. Platforms offer opportunities, its up to lenders to consider them, do DD and decide.
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mack
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Post by mack on Feb 27, 2016 1:01:28 GMT
There are at least two current loans which I suspect some people would have ethical issues of the alledged activities of the borrower if they were aware of it. Personally, I have issues with loans for green energy projects so avoid them Tim and Liam need to understand a lot of investors trust them and that needs to be be respected and returned. Do not bring rubbish to the market and don't focus on size over quality. The Birmingham loan was total trash and should not be sold to unsophisticated investors. The appetite/greed of investors has distorted the market and the loan quality has dropped off. I made a comment on quality, the pipeline was large and I have to say poor. Some regular contributors to this forum need to stop posting constantly as they influence novice investors inappropriately.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 27, 2016 8:24:20 GMT
My question is this.... Would a 12% safe return be your only concern or would you think twice depending on the purpose of the loan? Will my few quid make the slightest difference to whether any such project happens? No. Will SS not funding the loan make the slightest difference? No. There are people who can and will object to almost anything - some objections are more widespread than others, sure, but...
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Post by highlandtiger on Feb 27, 2016 8:48:54 GMT
I'm not sure what the purchaser is wanting to do with the property, but if they wanted to build a wind farm, or use the land to farm something which was controversial say using the land on the coast to base a salmon farm or whatever, even drilling for oil or fracking or as is the case across in N. Ireland under sea excavation to pump in gas for storage which I know is very controversial and likely to cause untold environmental damage which of course the company would try to play down or deny. I have no issues with any of the examples. I personally have friends who work in the wind farm industry, (building turbines), I personally know people who have Wind turbines on their land, which has saved their farm from going under, and in one case, partly enabled them to group purchase their entire island. I have relatives who work in the salmon farming industry, and apart some issues with diseases, which are slowly being brought under control, (something I know quite a bit about myself, as I do work in an aquatic based industry), this industry needs to be increased not decreased. Wild Salmon numbers are being severely reduced thanks to coastal netting and increase in game fishing, and pressure does need to be taken off wild stocks. And I have no problem with fracking, drilling, or the innovative under sea gas storage. I for one have a little more faith in the science behind these industries, than the doom and gloom of the tree huggers, who if they had their way, we'd all be living in wooden shacks in the middle of the woods, huddling around wooden camp fires, using wooden tools and wondering where all the trees had gone. ps, I have to put a disclaimer in that I actually know of the estate personally, though not of the purchaser / owner, and I have driven past it thousands of times over the last 30 odd years on a regular basis and visited it on a couple of times.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Feb 27, 2016 9:00:40 GMT
So I have just heard of an upcoming loan coming to SS.... It's a borrower, who is a neo-nazi and needs the money to buy a church in a small Oxfordshire village.... to turn into a brothel.... PERSONALLY, I THINK THIS IS A DISGRAC.... Oh, Hang on..... 5% LTV...... Anyway, I'm good to go for pre-funding; how about you guys?  Disclaimer - The above is a joke, is not meant to be taken seriously and contains no truths whatsoever
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adrianc
Member of DD Central
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Post by adrianc on Feb 27, 2016 9:38:40 GMT
There does tend to be at least a presumption of legality, (un)fortunately...
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Post by highlandtiger on Feb 27, 2016 9:57:03 GMT
I think that this property is possibly a location I could almost see from where I live in N Ireland, if I found out the borrower was wanting to build a golf resort (Mr Trump anyone) and the locals were dead set against it. I don't think I would invest. You may have to tilt your head to the right and squint a bit, but yes you may just be able see it. If you can see Gigha, then you can see the estate.  As for a golf course, well considering the last golf course a few miles away was built, (very well, according to environmentalists), on a site of special scientific interest, (I think the only course that has ever been given permission to do so), which were the sand dunes of Machrihanish. I expect getting permission in this area for a golf course would be a slam dunk. (as long as it wasn't the Trump)
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Post by sunspot on Feb 27, 2016 10:45:45 GMT
Ethics are a matter of personal freedom. So far, I've seen projects/loans here that I wouldn't fund for practical reasons, but none for ethical ones (though I've not read every document by any means).
I have though, seen one loan that for ethical reasons should never have been offered. Specifically, it's highly improper to advertise loans as being asset-backed, and then attempt to slip one through on a personal guarantee. However, that's enough said, since there's another thread on the subject.
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Post by savingstream on Feb 27, 2016 11:16:24 GMT
There are at least two current loans which I suspect some people would have ethical issues of the alledged activities of the borrower if they were aware of it. Personally, I have issues with loans for green energy projects so avoid them Could you please clarify that Ilmoro? " There are at least two current loans which I suspect some people would have ethical issues of the alledged activities of the borrower if they were aware of it."
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Post by thickmick on Feb 27, 2016 11:45:21 GMT
I'm not sure what the purchaser is wanting to do with the property, but if they wanted to build a wind farm, or use the land to farm something which was controversial say using the land on the coast to base a salmon farm or whatever, even drilling for oil or fracking or as is the case across in N. Ireland under sea excavation to pump in gas for storage which I know is very controversial and likely to cause untold environmental damage which of course the company would try to play down or deny. I have no issues with any of the examples. I personally have friends who work in the wind farm industry, (building turbines), I personally know people who have Wind turbines on their land, which has saved their farm from going under, and in one case, partly enabled them to group purchase their entire island. I have relatives who work in the salmon farming industry, and apart some issues with diseases, which are slowly being brought under control, (something I know quite a bit about myself, as I do work in an aquatic based industry), this industry needs to be increased not decreased. Wild Salmon numbers are being severely reduced thanks to coastal netting and increase in game fishing, and pressure does need to be taken off wild stocks. And I have no problem with fracking, drilling, or the innovative under sea gas storage. I for one have a little more faith in the science behind these industries, than the doom and gloom of the tree huggers, who if they had their way, we'd all be living in wooden shacks in the middle of the woods, huddling around wooden camp fires, using wooden tools and wondering where all the trees had gone. Highlantiger I don't have a problem with windfarms, salmon farms golf courses etc, I was just giving examples. As for facking, the jury is still out on that one for me. If and it's a big if, it is done correctly and properly regulated then okay. But I've seen it in action in the USA and know there are problems. As for the gas storage... I'm in awe at the technology involved but don't believe the company when they say it will not have an adverse effect on the local wildlife. All companies are driven by profit and some are better than others at trying to offset any environmental or community effects. History would tell us that companies dealing in fossil fuels tend to be more profit driven than others. As such I'm sceptical that when they say it would not impact on the local environment that they are being completely truthful, or even have done proper and exhaustive research has into the matter. Just my opinion of course. Mike ps, I have to put a disclaimer in that I actually know of the estate personally, though not of the purchaser / owner, and I have driven past it thousands of times over the last 30 odd years on a regular basis and visited it on a couple of times.
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Post by dodgeydave on Feb 27, 2016 12:50:49 GMT
Personally i am not bothered about ethics.
Will look it up in the dictionary later.
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