mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 14, 2014 17:45:40 GMT
I know I have until 31/Jan to file my return if I file online, and I know the deadline is earlier (31/Oct) if I want to file a paper return and have HMRC calculate my tax. But in order to file that return I have to be able to tell HMRC what my earnings were, and for that I have to rely on whoever paid me any income. Surely my income provider can't make me wait until 31/Jan before supplying me with the info I need to prepare my tax return. So what I asked was "Isn't there a HMRC requirement that income payers provide the relevant data to their income recipients by some deadline?" Mike, I'm not sure you have the right end of the stick. the 31st January is the filing date. Where someone is deducting tax on income you recieve there is a separate deadline (.e.g. see deadline on P60s, P111Ds and tax statement provision by banks. As p2p is not deducting tax in this tax year, so none of that applies. While I think it is a bit remiss that several of hte platforms seem to have not thought to provide nicely presentable statements for purposes of tax returns, (unlike FC which has) in the case of AC I don't see it as much of an issue: the format of their transaction statements seems to be easily amenable to quickly self calculating. Its taken a matter of a few minutes to login, download transaction satement to excel, put a pretty trivial filter on it, and calculate the interest received over a user defined period. It still nonetheless annoys/irritates me that the data is not separated/presented out in a way that would make that even easier i.e. to provide a column which classifies each transaction: interst payment, deferred interest payment etc. etc. : an aspect where AC has something in common with TC (in fact, I'm beginning to recall that FC may have precisely the same issue on its transaction details). What you seem to be saying is that if a payer deducts tax from your income they are obliged to supply you with a statement of income and tax deducted in a timely manner, but if they don't deduct tax they don't need to tell you how much income you've had, full stop. That seems like a rather deficient system to me, but if that's they way it is, then that's the way it is. So AC supply me with a long and detailed statement -- mine is over 750 lines already, and I've been involved here for less than five months -- and I'm supposed to dig the relevant info out of it myself? OK, I do use Excel a bit, but until today I've never used a filter. Thanks to bracknellboy's detailed explanation, I think I've learned enough to extract the number I need. And for that help, I'm most grateful -- though I do wonder what non-forum users who are not Excel experts will do. However, I really don't think I should have to do this myself. Don't AC have an obligation to tell HMRC what income they've paid to me? Presuming they do -- and I'd expect there'd be zillions of pounds of undeclared income that went untaxed if companies like AC didn't have such an obligation -- surely they aren't going to get away with sending HMRC my long detailed statement and telling HMRC to work it out themselves! I expect they have to give HMRC exactly one number for me -- my income -- and since they have to work that out for HMRC there's no reason why they can't tell me as well. (It also would ensure that the amount of AC income I enter into my tax return is the same amount HMRC expect me to enter, and that would be a very good thing.)
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Post by bracknellboy on Mar 14, 2014 18:09:13 GMT
Don't AC have an obligation to tell HMRC what income they've paid to me? No they don't. Even your bank doesn't have to do that. They just pay you net of withholding tax and pay the aggregate of tax collected to HMRC.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 14, 2014 18:15:30 GMT
Apologies if I'm teaching Grandmother etc etc. but from my quick perusal it seemed to be pretty easy and quick to do. On my account so far, all interest payments appear to have the text "Interest Repayment" or "deferred interest" in the transaction 'narrative'. Therefore download the transaction statement to excel. Select the top row and select Data->Filter->Auto Filter. Select the pull down on 'narrative' and select 'Custom'. Put on two filters "contains" "Interest Repayment" OR "contains" "deferred interest". Apply. Then do a Sum on the Amount column. Job done. Took longer to write that than it did to actually do it. I accept that it is easy to do but the end result does not look like a sufficiently authoritative document to satisfy my account who will insist on rechecking all the detail and charge me for doing it. Last year when I produced the FC statement he did not even blink and his only comment was "isn't it a bit risky" which I suppose is normal for accountants who are conservative at the best of times. So I for one would love to be able to printout a document in glorious Technicolor with Assets logo emblazoned on the top which looks the part for the account and the Revenue. For the record, I'll note that Zopa also provide a simple Annual Statement -- complete with their logo in colour -- to their lenders that includes a number labelled "Gross Earnings To Declare To HMRC". (On a side issue, I'll also note that Zopa include any cashback paid in the amount to be reported to HMRC.)
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 14, 2014 18:21:01 GMT
Don't AC have an obligation to tell HMRC what income they've paid to me? No they don't. Even your bank doesn't have to do that. They just pay you net of withholding tax and pay the aggregate of tax collected to HMRC. That's most interesting. IIRC, Zopa say that they do have such an obligation.
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Post by bracknellboy on Mar 14, 2014 18:24:44 GMT
No they don't. Even your bank doesn't have to do that. They just pay you net of withholding tax and pay the aggregate of tax collected to HMRC. That's most interesting. IIRC, Zopa say that they do have such an obligation. Well I was going to edit my post to say 'to the best of my knowledge'. But for example: how many institutions have you given your NI number to ? I only recall very few (normally related to ISAs).
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Post by bracknellboy on Mar 14, 2014 18:32:28 GMT
There are rules about declaration under an EU directive for the purposes of tracking income earned in one country where the person is resident in another. Whether that now means e.g. banks send all data lock stock and barrel I don't know.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 14, 2014 18:45:53 GMT
That's most interesting. IIRC, Zopa say that they do have such an obligation. Well I was going to edit my post to say 'to the best of my knowledge'. But for example: how many institutions have you given your NI number to ? I only recall very few (normally related to ISAs). I take your point, and I'm certainly no expert, but if there isn't an obligation for payers to report such info -- even if all they have is the earner's name and address -- I'd have thought that the incidence of failure to pay tax on such income would be so huge that HMG would have felt a need to close that loophole ages ago.
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
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Post by merlin on Mar 14, 2014 18:57:07 GMT
I am by no means an expert on tax affairs or HMRC but I have been on the receiving end of an HMRC tax investigation. During this investigation HMRC asked my accountant why the amount of income and tax deducted that I had declared was different to what my bank (Nationwide BS) had stated. So even if Nationwide don't send all information( income and tax deducted) to HMRC they can obtain such information when they deem they need it. In this instance it was simply a case of HMRC getting their facts wrong which proved useful to me when they asked a number of more complex questions.
As I said earlier I would be delighted to receive a simple statement from Assetz at the end of the tax year stating what I had earned in interest. FC provide such a facility and I think Assetz should as well.
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Post by bracknellboy on Mar 14, 2014 20:32:17 GMT
... they can obtain such information when they deem they need it. .... Indeed and hence all the furore over the years over places like Switzerland that prevented such information being made available in the past. Also indeed. However if you want to save some fees from your accountant as per your earlier post, suggest follow instructions for excel calculation, download Assetz logo by virtue of right click and copy image (sure that can be done from something with it on), put it all nicely in a word doc, then paper clip it underneath the one from FC before giving it to your accountant. Just make the layout a bit different. I didn't say any of that of course.
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
Posts: 902
Likes: 302
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Post by merlin on Mar 14, 2014 21:12:33 GMT
Maybe I will ask a question on this taxation subject at next weeks fiesta in London. By the way who is going? I apparently double booked but cannot imagine how I booked twice but I promised to only be there once! I suggested we all have name badges together with optional no deplumes from here.
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Post by oldnick on Mar 14, 2014 21:38:08 GMT
Maybe I will ask a question on this taxation subject at next weeks fiesta in London. By the way who is going? I apparently double booked but cannot imagine how I booked twice but I promised to only be there once! I suggested we all have name badges together with optional no deplumes from here. Good idea! I think I'll go as bracknellboy and behave disgracefully. That'll teach him for messing with my avatar:-)
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Mar 14, 2014 23:26:37 GMT
Maybe I will ask a question on this taxation subject at next weeks fiesta in London. By the way who is going? I apparently double booked but cannot imagine how I booked twice but I promised to only be there once! I suggested we all have name badges together with optional no deplumes from here. You'll be easy to spot, I'll just be looking for a vicar. You'll be wearing that dog collar, I wonder if anyone will recognize me?
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min
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Post by min on Mar 15, 2014 12:23:09 GMT
I accept that it is easy to do but the end result does not look like a sufficiently authoritative document to satisfy my account who will insist on rechecking all the detail and charge me for doing it. Last year when I produced the FC statement he did not even blink and his only comment was "isn't it a bit risky" which I suppose is normal for accountants who are conservative at the best of times. So I for one would love to be able to printout a document in glorious Technicolor with Assets logo emblazoned on the top which looks the part for the account and the Revenue. For the record, I'll note that Zopa also provide a simple Annual Statement -- complete with their logo in colour -- to their lenders that includes a number labelled "Gross Earnings To Declare To HMRC". (On a side issue, I'll also note that Zopa include any cashback paid in the amount to be reported to HMRC.) At end of January I needed to provide my accountant with an estimate of earnings from p2p platforms for current financial year in order to sort out mess HMRC had made of my tax code. I asked AC for the info and got this in the response: "A simpler tax statement is something I have requested and I hope isn't too far off being uploaded. If you or your IFA/Accountant require more information we are happy to assist with any requests." Hopefully they do it in next 3 weeks ready for end of tax year.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Mar 15, 2014 16:35:32 GMT
For the record, I'll note that Zopa also provide a simple Annual Statement -- complete with their logo in colour -- to their lenders that includes a number labelled "Gross Earnings To Declare To HMRC". (On a side issue, I'll also note that Zopa include any cashback paid in the amount to be reported to HMRC.) At end of January I needed to provide my accountant with an estimate of earnings from p2p platforms for current financial year in order to sort out mess HMRC had made of my tax code. I asked AC for the info and got this in the response: "A simpler tax statement is something I have requested and I hope isn't too far off being uploaded. If you or your IFA/Accountant require more information we are happy to assist with any requests." Hopefully they do it in next 3 weeks ready for end of tax year. Don't quote me on this but Chris was talking about this somewhere on the Board before this and as I remember it he said they're planning on having that functionality somewhere in H2. At the time I took it to mean by September, that depends on what Chris meant by H2. Also that's the best of my memory. If you need the info urgently I recommend you contact AC by phone.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Mar 15, 2014 16:59:23 GMT
For the record, I'll note that Zopa also provide a simple Annual Statement -- complete with their logo in colour -- to their lenders that includes a number labelled "Gross Earnings To Declare To HMRC". (On a side issue, I'll also note that Zopa include any cashback paid in the amount to be reported to HMRC.) At end of January I needed to provide my accountant with an estimate of earnings from p2p platforms for current financial year in order to sort out mess HMRC had made of my tax code. I asked AC for the info and got this in the response: "A simpler tax statement is something I have requested and I hope isn't too far off being uploaded. If you or your IFA/Accountant require more information we are happy to assist with any requests." Hopefully they do it in next 3 weeks ready for end of tax year. I've found where it's mentioned starting on the 26th Jan. which is page6 going onto 11th Feb. Tax Statement Suggestion
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